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He said he made his gi in hope that he would be as strong as his father one day, then proceeded to say it's not just the clothes. Sounds like he achieved his goal.

Trying to 'resolve' official levels brings into question the foundation that is being stood on. 5 different people could give the same summary of a fight between character X and Y, yet all have different PL gaps for those beings. With the official PLs, Frieza makes up the majority of Goku's...

The series doesn't appear to have a fixed framework for how a PL differential translates to a fight beyond the stronger character generally being the favourite to win. Digging into numbers beyond that quickly becomes arbitrary. I'd argue that a PL doesn't act as much more than a supplementary...

@SIAD Frieza 100% - Official PL Goku SSJ (Namek) - Official PL Mecha Frieza - Stronger than his Namek self, but weaker than Namek SSJ Goku Future Gohan SSJ (1 Arm) - Around SSJ Goku (before death) like he alluded to in his talk with Trunks Future Trunks SSJ (Debut) - I assume you mean 17...

Trunks said Goku would get sick not too long after Mecha Frieza's defeat, so Future Goku (pre-sickness) is basically the same as before.

Moved. Please try to keep threads like this in the current area

1 serious Frieza is capable of going head to head with a Super Saiyan calibre fighter - 4 of him get the job done. SSJ was still fairly new around Trunks' debut, so the scaling wasn't particularly specific. That's why both Goku and Trunks were often grouped together in any talk relating to...

@Dagon Under that view, do you consider it out-of-place going off of what ahill said?

It's worth noting that Goku wasn't speaking directly at Trunks or Pan, he was eyeing Rilldo. Goku was basically thinking out loud it seems. Do you still find that part of the scene strange?

Don't think it matters much. Goku is firmly above Trunks, didn't need anything near SSJ3 for the fight, yet was still happy to fight Rilldo by the looks of it. Early-mid GT was quite scarce of fighters of any worth, so when someone popped up that was decent and wouldn't run away (like Ledgic)...

I'd argue that power should be the focus above all else. If a villain shows their power and it's fully acknowledged by the person gauging it, I don't see what more familiarity would be required. I'd need to see something from Goku to suggest he'd deliberately make a comparison that waters down 1...

I understand what you mean. If Rilldo went out there and flatlined Gohan, it would reinforce the scale that's indicated from the Goku battle. However, overall I'd characterise such a scenario as being "too little, too late" as they say, as Rilldo got vaporised soon after that encounter, and Buu...

At that point, Rilldo's relevance was almost entirely zero. Even in the Baby Arc, he was only semi-relevant. So I could see why that encounter didn't offer much of anything. While a snoozefest - from the little fighting that did happen, Rilldo appeared to have the upperhand.

The guide said he continued training, but he had no notable solo dub in the show, so it's like - who cares. I'm not part of the camp that says he got weaker though.

Evil Buu gets free food.

I'd want to see the dynamic between him and 17. Present 17 thought of himself as the strongest artificial human, then was taken aback by 16 being better. Future 17 seemed to have similar pride, while being a lot colder. Perhaps there would be lingering resentment over that, but it's anyone's...

Wouldn't say far beyond since it's his own power. If you mean in terms of pulling it off, then I would say it's not guaranteed since Kid Buu likes to apply consistent pressure on his opponent.

It's tough. Prior to Vegeta blasting off, no one was like "Vegeta's got this", but coming out the victor against 3 fighters suggests a notable difference. SSJ Vegeta -- at that stage -- had yet to be tested in an all-out gruelling battle, so there was still room for the idea that there might be...

The story tells us that Goku at max power can handle Buu, so that blast is below what SSJ3 Goku can do if he doesn't screw around and chip his power away in a brawl.

Goku was strong enough to entertain him (even warranting a continuation request from Cell after the fight), but that's all he could muster. A pattern we saw from SSJG Goku vs Beerus, BoG.