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Goku stated Piccolo hadn't a chance vs Frost even in a bazillion years... The fight showed otherwise as Piccolo was keeping up with Frost, even though Frost had the advantage: Goku was shown surprised with Piccolo once he dished out his first attacks and complimented Piccolo for being...

Goku suggested choosing Boo and Piccolo. The fact he said Bop for sure and then Piccolo would imply Boo is still stronger. The reason for not choosing Gohan lied on Gohan being into academics, not in how powerful he thinks Piccolo has become, which he couldn't know. From BoG to RoF, Gohan...

I'd say he thinks it wouldn't bypass his regeneration. 16 seemed to think it'd kill everyone there, Gohan included, so may this was capable of that... But not against Cell with his regeneration abilities. Kind of like receiving the KMHMH from Goku head on which he regenerated right afterwards...

Ok, getting back at the argument at hand, I think I overdid it in the last answer, but in regards to Piccolo vs base Saiyans... You have RoF Gohan < 25th Budokai Gohan... And yet, you have this Gohan > Piccolo. In the DBS manga, it's stated, right after the arc, that Piccolo would have been...

Yeah, no use to continue this. You show time and time again to be someone hard to have a constructive debate with. Sometimes you will be perfectly nice to have a discussion, other times you'll show completely close mindness and attitudes that's just off-putting to continue the debate. Boring and...

Wait, didn't you say you had a superior battle power system than Toriyama's numbers, because Toriyama couldn't keep consistency with his own numbers? So now you think whoever argues Piccolo should be stronger than the humans in the 23rd Budokai by more than the scouters suggested are just...

The bulk of the arguments here is basically the insistent on the assumption that narrative developments in Dragon Ball Super must retroactively redirect our understanding of the original Dragon Ball manga's events and character dynamics. I'm not even saying this perspective is wrong... and I've...

It does since it's more based.

The original manga had strong implications that were never made a case, within it, to show these implications as invalid themselves. If Gohan was shown struggling when avoiding Goten's blows not once but twice, the second one later on with their sparring being shown to be more aggressive and...

I agree

I'd give it to King as well. Zoro was pushed to his limits there. Granted he didn't know or seemed to know how to use Haoshoku embed attacks until thinking back on his time as a kid and piecing things together... But he was overall getting outworked by King. Against Lucci, they seemed to be in a...

Weird. I always took it as #8 being fully robot.

I'm not arguing whether Super is canon or not. It is canon. So is the Daizenshuu. So is the SEG. I'm arguing whether it is consistent with the original manga portrayal. Many things are not. We don't just blindly accept anything from Super without critically looking at the original manga. This...

But then did Vegeta and Goku forget about SSJ2 Gohan from the Budokai? Or was the scene written in a way they saw ssj1 there instead of SSJ2? In fact, if Gohan transformed merely into a SSJ1 in the Budokai, most things would flow perfectly except the comparison with Cell which would still take...

Piccolo vs base Saiyans would be different because people take that angle with strong suggestions from the Boo arc. Obviously, the Boo arc would be capable to shedding light in anything half confirmed or implied in the Cell arc, as it's part of the main continuity done by Toriyama shortly after...

Yeah, I think the answer would be that he was enraged in the Budokai, like, let's say a delayed rage catalyst to Videl getting beaten up, while his rage had already dwindled when facing Dabra. That'd be the most logical in universe implication. It's weird because Goku specifically reinforces...

Original manga implies otherwise

Agreed.

I think the main point ppl use for the kids being ~ the cell Juniors' would be Vegeta stating to 17 that his kid was as strong as what he saw from future Trunks, taking that alongside with them needing to put up effort to stop the Cell Juniors' blows. I think people assume Vegeta knew that 17...

Yeah I think the fact they saw how big scale the last tournament was, they didn't even bother. It's said the number of competitors had already dwindled after the 22nd Budokai. So I think the true strong fighters saw they were useless. Maybe they aren't the type to be caught up on the news either...