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Im starting to get the feeling his Initial State is the same strength as Fat Boo. Nobody has noted a power increase, only the change in Ki. Not even Piccolo says anything about power, only that he is better suited for battle. Can anyone counter this argument?

I have no idea how strong Cymbal is, but im guessing at least stronger than Krillin and Yamcha (22nd Budokai)

These are some arguments that may actually suggest SSJB is far weaker than SSJG, but it's only a theory and an attempt to make Super more reasonable. 1. SSJB is the product of SSJG Ki in SSJ. How this can be an argument is because SSJB is only an essence of SSJG. SSJG is basically the...

It's been stated Goku and Vegeta can beat Beerus if they teamed up with SSJB, but new material suggest otherwise. Or maybe Whis knew that Goku was gonna use Kaioken x10! :cage1

Who would win and why?

It's official, Goku would at this point demolish Beerus and possibly even Whis.

Who would win and why? As far as im concerned they are dead even but the Goku vs Hit fight may prove otherwise.

We know that Gohan with post training would easily takes this, so I decided to use Gohan before he lost his arm.

Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta forced Beerus to use 10% of his power so how powerful would he be against SSJG Goku?

The World Champion against the guy who Goku fought when trying to find Bulma

How powerful is he in the movie? Just wondering about where other people put him at.

We know that they dont stand a chance in a costume, but what if it was just Goten who fought her?

If they would have fought, who would have won?

If they would have ever come across, who would have won?

Who wins and why?

Who wins and why?

Normally it would be 2x, but there are alot of people who believe it's alot more than that, like 3x, or 4x. Hell, I'v seen people put it at 7x.

Who wins?

Is it a big gap or a small one?

If she did, how much?