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I think this route is the one that makes the most sense re-analyzing their fight. Piccolo Strength: 100 Speed: 100 Android 17 Strength: 95 Speed: 105

To be fair, Jiren was always like that, when he wants to be, while it is not the same when he actually tries like when he is dominating Goku and Vegeta together or when he impacted Vegeta with a ki blast which let him on the floor, the narrator also makes the comment that Jiren and the rest of...

This would be my last comment in this section, I wouldn't be responding anything even if anyone quote me.

Going with @Kyo with this. Even though, I highly disagree with Pre Rosat Gotenks being as strong or any stronger than SSJ3 Goku, it'd be reckless for me to support Spiral Force if he is stupid enough to think that things have to keep civil in an action show when everyone is fighting.

That's why I think Whis is talking about a Expected FP Jiren which he never said it surpassed his expectatives, so that's a better placement realistically. Because that's what I estimated: FP SSJ Broly = 3.396.600.000.000.000.000 Beerus = 3.396.580.000.000.000.000 UI Goku (129) =...

It could go either way, it could be provoking him or him literally talking to him wanting to use that same power, I think it's possible that the Jiren from 122 was stronger than the one in 110 due to Vegeta's statement, he just ain't using his full effort or nowhere near close to that. Also...

Jiren was faster and stronger when he fought Goku and Hit than what he was against Vegeta taking into account that Hit states that the same blows he was receiving from Jiren were as heavy as the ones he used with Goku. I could agree that Vegeta performed better against the weaker Jiren as he...

He underrated Vegeta, though. But yeah, pretty much Hit was a greater threat than him.

Hit is stronger, not that much, but he def has the edge on that. I also personally consider that the Time Cage is too much for even Evolved Blue Vegeta to manage something against.

This post I post if before I ended and was editing it in the proccess as I unexpectedly put "post thread", as of now is complete.

As is a character that is practically featless all we can tell is analyze through statements to try to determine his power. Of course, this is just an approximation of his power and not an actual way to measure his strength. So I don't have to fall in redundant arguments I would post some that...

Even if he means serious bussiness?

But that was previous he discovered he cannot make a hole through Buu which he was initially convinced he could do.

@SIAD Regardless, how are your power levels in this case (in numbers)?

I think another difference is that SSJ Future Gohan was dominating Future Android 17 so 18 had to step in and that SSJ Future Gohan unarmed could hold his own against the two of them.

I think the anime and manga made two completely different versions scalling-wise. But how would be your power levels in this case?

It's implied that Goku and Vegeta can't defeat Buu as they are (unfused), however, there's also to consider that Buu is immortal on his own body and impossible to kill. Do you think they would eventually get tired or would they manage to be succesful one way or another?

17 stated he was using less than half. Chapter: Trunks: the Story, P9.4-5, P10.1 Context: It’s worth noting that Trunks doesn’t hear this conversation and is unconscious, so he doesn’t sense the fight. No.17: “Anyway, it’s been a long time, Son Gohan…It’s been about 1 year, right? I’m surprised...

I think Freeza is pissweak on here. He would get turned into dust for Base Vegetto not even trying even on his 4th form.

Actually I can think that post retcon that would be a game change for Buu, if he dissapeared for one hour and re-appeared like with Gohan, Goku and Vegeta would defuse and both together are too weak to compare with him. Also, he could employ this Self Destruction seriously, but he wasn't...