2 things

[Fantastische Hure]

1) Whis says Vegeta couldn't even use 10% of his power against Hit. I know it'd be stupid, if Vegeta was even below 1% of his power and Whis for some reason just said 10%, but that statement does give some lee-way to turn it around to where you see fit (like much less than 10%). Just think maybe Whis couldn't word it perfectly.

2) How high is initial Goku-Black in the manga?

 

[Void]

I'd say 6-9% is fair. Any lower and I think Whis wouldn't even bother saying 10%.

Initial Goku Black is most likely weaker than SS Trunks. Black apparently needed Super Saiyan to fight Trunks before, and he was using Trunks for zenkais.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I'd say 6-9% is fair. Any lower and I think Whis wouldn't even bother saying 10%.

Initial Goku Black is most likely weaker than SS Trunks. Black apparently needed Super Saiyan to fight Trunks before, and he was using Trunks for zenkais.

I'd say the same too, but DB-Super makes that almost impossible. How is Super-Saiyan Goku able to do that when a 6-9% Super-Saiyan Blue Vegeta couldn't do that? It would make no sense, which is why I think it'd be better if we look at Whis statement as a sort-of fill-in the blanks type statement. Logically what you said would make the most sense, but not here so just figure how much power Vegeta really should have lost and whilst Whis statement might sound silly then, it's technically still not wrong.

What? In the first chapter of the saga we see his regular state beating-up on Super-Saiyan 2 Trunks. Or do you mean initial initial (as in even before we first saw Goku-Black first)?

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah Black before he formally appeared apparently assraped SSJ2 Trunks enough times that he got powerful enough to do so in base

 

[Fantastische Hure]

You mean Trunks did? Or did he get Zenkais beating-up on someone-else? Or get powerful beating-up in someone-else (like training I guess).

 

[Void]

When Black turns SS against Vegeta, Trunks mentions not having seen him use SS in a long time, implying Black used to need SS to fight him.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

When Black turns SS against Vegeta, Trunks mentions not having seen him use SS in a long time, implying Black used to need SS to fight him.

It must have missed that or forgot.

So what would you say all of Goku-Black's power that we see in the manga are? Initial as in when we first see him physically and then whatever Zenkais and forms.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Even though the statement is stupid, it gives us a guide about where to place SSJB compared to SSJ.
So, even though i don't think Vegeta was as weak as 10% of his max, i use the SSJB~10x SSJ info.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Even though the statement is stupid, it gives us a guide about where to place SSJB compared to SSJ.
So, even though i don't think Vegeta was as weak as 10% of his max, i use the SSJB~10x SSJ info.

How? When there's Super-Saiyan 2 and Super-Saiyan 3 still?

 

[Future Warrior]

Even though the statement is stupid, it gives us a guide about where to place SSJB compared to SSJ.
So, even though i don't think Vegeta was as weak as 10% of his max, i use the SSJB~10x SSJ info.

How? When there's Super-Saiyan 2 and Super-Saiyan 3 still?

The multipliers presumably became lower.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Even though the statement is stupid, it gives us a guide about where to place SSJB compared to SSJ.
So, even though i don't think Vegeta was as weak as 10% of his max, i use the SSJB~10x SSJ info.

How? When there's Super-Saiyan 2 and Super-Saiyan 3 still?

The multipliers presumably became lower.

But why? I don't get it.

 

[Future Warrior]

How? When there's Super-Saiyan 2 and Super-Saiyan 3 still?

The multipliers presumably became lower.

But why? I don't get it.

Cause SSB = ~10x SS

 

[Fantastische Hure]

The multipliers presumably became lower.

But why? I don't get it.

Cause SSB = ~10x SS

But since when, l0l?

On-top of that in the anime, Zamas says something about Goku's Super-Saiyan 2 power-up, like several dozen times or something.

 

[Future Warrior]

But since when, l0l?

On-top of that in the anime, Zamas says something about Goku's Super-Saiyan 2 power-up, like several dozen times or something.

SSB Vegeta (10%>) >= SS Goku >= Hit

SSB Vegeta was getting dominated by Hit due to his timeskip while Goku wasn't due to being able to figure out how his timeskip works. SS Goku was stated by Beerus to be stronger than Initial Hit even though he hadn't surpassed less than 10% Blue Vegeta since Whis had only stated that SSG Goku was stronger than him. Hit's timeskip was stated to only work against opponents around the same strength or weaker than himself. This all fits with them being around the same ballpark of power, so each of them would be about 6-9% of FP Blue Vegeta. This is why Blue is only slightly above 10x SS.

The dozens of times statement was anime only.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

But since when, l0l?

On-top of that in the anime, Zamas says something about Goku's Super-Saiyan 2 power-up, like several dozen times or something.

SSB Vegeta (10%>) >= SS Goku >= Hit

SSB Vegeta was getting dominated by Hit due to his timeskip while Goku wasn't due to being able to figure out how his timeskip works. SS Goku was stated by Beerus to be stronger than Initial Hit even though he hadn't surpassed less than 10% Blue Vegeta since Whis had only stated that SSG Goku was stronger than him. Hit's timeskip was stated to only work against opponents around the same strength or weaker than himself. This all fits with them being around the same ballpark of power, so each of them would be about 6-9% of FP Blue Vegeta. This is why Blue is only slightly above 10x SS.

The dozens of times statement was anime only.

But Vegeta was at less than 10% of his power. That's an important difference, so you might be able to say it's less.

 

[Future Warrior]

But Vegeta was at less than 10% of his power. That's an important difference, so you might be able to say it's less.

It shouldn't be that much less than 10% though.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

But Vegeta was at less than 10% of his power. That's an important difference, so you might be able to say it's less.

It shouldn't be that much less than 10% though.

What if it is revealed to be that, later down the road?

 

[Future Warrior]

What if it is revealed to be that, later down the road?

Then multipliers would in fact be the same as it was back in Z.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What if it is revealed to be that, later down the road?

Then multipliers would in fact be the same as it was back in Z.

Amen