...

[p123]

Son Goku and Friends


Pterodacytl
~ 15

Bear Bandit
~ 20

Krillen
~ 30

Yamcha
~ Base Power 45
~ Wolf Fang Fist 50

Ox King
~ 100

Master Roshi
~ Base Power 150
~ Buff 300
~ Kamehameha 400

Son Goku
~ w/o tail 40
~ w/ tail 50
~ Oozaru 500




21st Tenkaichi Budokai


Orin Temple Bullies
~ 40

Yamcha
~ Base Power 60
~ Wolf Fang Fist 70

Giran
~ 90

Krillen
~ Initial 75
~ Full Power 100

Namu
~ 140

Jackie Chun
~ Effortless 80
~ Initial Level 100
~ Full Power 150
~ Kamehameha 200
~ Buff 300
~ Kamehameha 450

Son Goku
~ w/o tail 120
~ w/ tail 150
~ Kamehameha 200
~ Oozaru 1,500




Muscle Tower


Colonel Silver
~ 50

Ninja Murasaki
~ 100

Sergeant Metallic
~ 135

Son Goku
~ Initial 140
~ Full Power 160

Android 8
~ 200




Red Ribbon Army


Krillen
~ 100

Pirate Robot
~120

Bora
~ 125

General Blue
~ 130

Black
~ 200

Tao Pai Pai
~ Initial 300
~ Full Power 360
~ Dodonpa 450

Son Goku
~ Pre Training 180
~ Kamehameha 240
~ Post Training 400




Uranai Baba's Tournament


Dracula
~ 50

Invisible Man
~ 55

Yamcha
~ Base Power 60
~ Wolf Fang Fist 70

Krillen
~ 100

Mummy
~ 160

Devil
~ 250

Son Gohan
~ 380

Son Goku
~ Initial 240
~ Powered Up 300
~ Full Power 400




22nd Tenkaichi Budokai

 

[SSJ2]

What do you have the Farmer?

 

[p123]

Maybe 2?

 

[SSJ2]

Good. If you had him at 5...

lmao

 

[p123]

I want to have a decent baseline set up. First struggle now would be keeping Oozaru Goku > Gohan. Which is not the easiest thing to do, but not impossible either.

 

[SSJ2]

You have to have the gains from BoDB - 21st extremely small, which isn't supported imo by all of the subtle power ups in the 21s. Fuck, Jackie vs Krillin alone has a couple.

 

[p123]

Yea, I'm going to have to look into that. There are a shit ton of power ups from Goku's initial power to Goku's power vs Gohan. Maybe I won't give a fuck about that and will have Gohan gaining power in the after life. That is totally plausible as well.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah I prefer that route. Though he was supposedly just banging hoes

 

[p123]

You can bang hoes and train. I have to think about it. Well for one, I have a hard time thinking of Gohan straight up dwarfing Roshi at any one point of another. I think Roshi is essentially stronger than every human on the planet initially except for Tao and some of the Red Ribbon Army people, I guess including Tien in that as well.

So I think Roshi and Gohan are probably always around the same level as they aged.

 

[SSJ2]

What do you think about this? Wrote this a while ago:

Yes. Akkuman looks unfazed by the fact that Mummy was one shotted by Goku, and that Goku took all his attacks with no damage. Goku couldn't tank him though for what it's worth.

Akkuman says that Goku has power, but still looks confident and is even smiling at the fact that he has to fight Goku.

Goku puts effort into the kick when he kicked Akkuman, but Akkuman was relatively unaffected. It would seem as though Goku was suppressed though, seeing as he called Akkuman weak, and even said that he was just testing him.

Maybe...

Goku initial: 100
Mummy: 70
Goku more effort against Mummy: 130
Akkuman: 150
Goku against Akkuman: 190

 

[p123]

I think I have it something like this.


Goku FP >= Gohan >> Goku ( Vs Akkuman Initial ) > Akkuman > Goku ( Vs Mummy ) >> Mummy

I think the expressions of the crowd probably indicate a new level of speed shown or so. I think Mummy should be able to tell that Goku is faster or slower than himself and his shock should suggest Goku did alter his ability.

 

[SSJ2]

Right, so adding that on top of Goku being > his 21st self, along with all of the 21st power ups, is it really possible to have Oozaru Goku > Gohan?

 

[p123]

It's probably not. And now that I think of it, it probably doesn't make sense for Gohan to be so overwhelmingly stronger than Roshi without some help from the afterlife.

I think it would be a little weird if a hypothetical situation occurred where Roshi bumped in Gohan and Goku and Gohan manhandled him. Just doesn't seem likely and I doubt that's the author's intentions.

What I do find likely is that Gohan could have died and through some training, probably regained a lot of his power that he had from the old days.

I think Grandpa Gohan in his prime is somewhere around 22nd Jackie Chun and I think Jackie Chun at the 22nd is somewhere close to Prime Roshi. All in all, Prime Gohan vs Prime Roshi is intended to have been a real battle. And their top potential shown is above 22nd Budokai Jackie Chun level. So they have lost tons and tons of power over the years as they have aged.

 

[SSJ2]

Yeah, Roshi implies 21st Goku > Gohan based on the electricity he took, so it seems logical for him to have gotten a hax Otherworld boost.

 

[p123]

I think it's possible they are all the same power in that suggestion. Goku being able to handle pain better is probably based on his Saiyan traits more than anything. He's dumb as rocks and is tough as nails. I didn't really see anything to suggest that Goku was stronger than Jackie. He got the upper hand due to his skills and battle ability, not necessarily a ki issue. His youth, animal instincts and fighting ability is what gave him the lead imo. Not everything is a power statement.

 

[SSJ2]

Fair point on Saiyan heritage.

As for having better skills, I disagree. Goku has barely any formal martial arts training, he's an instinctive fighter. Roshi should have the skill upper hand by hype. I think Goku was certainly a bit stronger, Roshi even admits that he only won because of leg length.

 

[p123]

Everything Jackie threw at Goku, he countered and did it better. He is a superior fighter based on instinct. Jackie has more skills, but Goku just copies them and does them even better, further frustrating Jackie.

The whole battle is Jackie Chun thinking how dare he be as good as me! While Goku is laughing about it and doing so effortlessly. So I just see Goku learning on the fly and making Jackie a fool, I don't see power difference being an issue, a power difference wouldn't have any effect on the situation that occurred in their fight.

As Roshi explained during his training of Goku and Krillen, he had nothing left to teach them. He taught them the hard work and discipline, he got their bodies hardened up for combat and that was it. They have all been taught the basics.

 

[SSJ2]

Well I mean, if he is doing them better then is he not the superior fighter? And to do these things better with less pure fighting skill, shouldn't we allow for a slight power gap to make up for it?

That's just my interpretation. I can agree with an equal gap, but Jackie is definitely not > Goku imo.

 

[p123]

Well that's what I'm saying. Goku is essentially like Kid Buu here. Watching a fighter perform a technique and instantly learning it and mastering it. That's basically what we see in the fight. Goku picked up the Kamehameha very quickly and that took Roshi 50 years to master. Yet Goku has mastered it in far less than a year I believe.

So Goku is just copying Roshi and matching him or exceeding him in an instant. Roshi is more experienced, but Goku is the more naturally gifted fighter for sure.

 

[SSJ2]

Ight, ca;t really argue further beyond that. Let me know when you've added the 21st or whatnot.