About DragonBall Super's canonicity

[Fantastische Hure]

I think the anime most likely has too much involvement from other writers to truly feel like DragonBall as written by Akira Toriyama, however I have a question regarding the movies. Someone help me out since I didn't really ever watch the movies, outside of DragonBall-Super - Broly & maybe FnF. How close do these movies feel to the original DragonBall series? These are from what I understand fully written by Akira Toriyama.

Let's just visualise a world where all the modern art-style sheeeeeet is instead replaced by classic DragonBall look, do the movies feel like old-school DragonBall or do even they feel nothing like OG Akira Toriyama?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think I read somewhere that Toriyama tried to make BoGs in the Old Dragon Ball style (a comedy), and RoF in the Z style (a big action setpiece). That makes sense.

Broly and Super Hero feel a bit different since they're focused on different characters, and I think they're cool experiments both visually and narratively.

 

[SSJ2]

Honestly, even if they had the old animation style I don't think they would feel remotely the same.

 

[Yoshi]

Super has too many contradictions for me to consider it canon. I would sooner call GT canon to the DB/DBZ Anime than I would call Super canon in any shape or form.

 

[Papasmurf]

Super has too many contradictions for me to consider it canon. I would sooner call GT canon to the DB/DBZ Anime than I would call Super canon in any shape or form.

Toriyama himself has gone and said Gogeta was never canon to Dragon Ball before he added him to the Broly movie. There is a fairly clearly defined canon in DB mythos, even if it's impossible to be 100% objective about it since AT's drafts for Super are not released

 

[Animelover5487]

I think Super is going to rewrite the End of Z.

 

[Papasmurf]

It contradicted it the moment it went past the U6 arc or so.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don’t think EoZ is going to be retold unless they go in a different direction with it. Goku will still go after Oob in the tournament and train him. No need to remake everything just to erase a couple wrinkles on Bulma and insert a reference to Beerus.

Super has too many contradictions for me to consider it canon. I would sooner call GT canon to the DB/DBZ Anime than I would call Super canon in any shape or form.

GT has a whole saga that contradicts everything that’s been established about the Other World.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

The anime is not canon.

 

[Goku9001]

I don’t think EoZ is going to be retold unless they go in a different direction with it. Goku will still go after Oob in the tournament and train him. No need to remake everything just to erase a couple wrinkles on Bulma and insert a reference to Beerus.



GT has a whole saga that contradicts everything that’s been established about the Other World.

But it certainly could be readapted which is what they did with Battle of Gods and what they are doing with Super Hero.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But it certainly could be readapted which is what they did with Battle of Gods and what they are doing with Super Hero.

Battle of Gods had to be adapted because it was the starting point, to bridge the Boo Saga and the rest of Super. No idea why they're adapting Super Hero, but I guess it all comes down to whether they'll want to rewrite EoZ when the time comes. But they don't need to.

 

[Goku9001]

Battle of Gods had to be adapted because it was the starting point, to bridge the Boo Saga and the rest of Super. No idea why they're adapting Super Hero, but I guess it all comes down to whether they'll want to rewrite EoZ when the time comes. But they don't need to.

Because there are fundamental differences between the movie and manga which have been explicitly confirmed by people directly involved with Super Hero. End of Z has a tournament setting that will naturally involve the strongest fighters. Among those are Granolah, Uub, Frieza, Gohan, Piccolo, and Broly. And those are just the ones we know of aside from any extra manga additions we might have. That's enough to suggest that there needs to be a readaptation for it to all make sense.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Because there are fundamental differences between the movie and manga which have been explicitly confirmed by people directly involved with Super Hero. End of Z has a tournament setting that will naturally involve the strongest fighters. Among those are Granolah, Uub, Frieza, Gohan, Piccolo, and Broly. And those are just the ones we know of aside from any extra manga additions we might have. That's enough to suggest that there needs to be a readaptation for it to all make sense.

An offhand comment about Jiren isn’t a “fundamental difference”. Nothing on Beerus’ planet had any relevance to the plot, and it would’ve been easy to handwave, just like any possible inconsistencies present in RoF or Broly.

Not to mention they’re not concerned with power levels like we are. If the overall story is the same, then the General Audiences aren’t missing anything.

 

[Dagon]

I think I read somewhere that Toriyama tried to make BoGs in the Old Dragon Ball style (a comedy), and RoF in the Z style (a big action setpiece). That makes sense.

Broly and Super Hero feel a bit different since they're focused on different characters, and I think they're cool experiments both visually and narratively.

Broly = classic Z movie style and Super Hero = GT Style.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

The TV anime clearly isn't canon.

 

[Papasmurf]

TV anime is in the same boat of canonicity as the Kai anime for me. Based on AT's original work but it's done by Toei

 

[Goku9001]

An offhand comment about Jiren isn’t a “fundamental difference”. Nothing on Beerus’ planet had any relevance to the plot, and it would’ve been easy to handwave, just like any possible inconsistencies present in RoF or Broly.

Not to mention they’re not concerned with power levels like we are. If the overall story is the same, then the General Audiences aren’t missing anything.

The writers see it differently. People directly involved expressed the movie as a separate story distinct from the manga. They made no such comment in regards to Broly and RoF .

Goku labeling both Jiren and Broly as we last knew of them as people they have to overcome is in fact, a direct contradiction to what the manga established. That's the implication behind Goku urging Vegeta to train harder.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The writers see it differently. People directly involved expressed the movie as a separate story distinct from the manga. They made no such comment in regards to Broly and RoF .

Goku labeling both Jiren and Broly as we last knew of them as people they have to overcome is in fact, a direct contradiction to what the manga established. That's the implication behind Goku urging Vegeta to train harder.

The exact same thing was said about Broly, they said it was a continuation to the anime that just ended. But being written by Toriyama, the manga couldn’t help but take it into account, so they made a single panel saying it happened. No need to waste months tracing frames.

So they have to retell the whole movie just to work around that one scene? Why do need to see Pan learning to fly and Kuririn fighting a bee for them to explain how strong Broly is?

Super Hero = GT Style.

If that were true, Goku would be the only character in the movie.

 

[Goku9001]

The exact same thing was said about Broly, they said it was a continuation to the anime that just ended. But being written by Toriyama, the manga couldn’t help but take it into account, so they made a single panel saying it happened. No need to waste months tracing frames.

So they have to retell the whole movie just to work around that one scene? Why do need to see Pan learning to fly and Kuririn fighting a bee for them to explain how strong Broly is?



If that were true, Goku would be the only character in the movie.

Broly was never stated to deviate from the manga. It was created to serve both the anime and manga. That is the difference.

 

[Dagon]

The TV anime clearly isn't canon.

TV anime is canonically the GT timeline.