Android 19/20 Power Discussion

[Victorious]

Ill never think the 19 post vs Vegeta gap is as big as the gap Gohan had on FP Cell or Goku had on the Ginyus. Its an absolute beat down gap but not quite that big.

 

[Victorious]

Vegeta's gap on 19 post is definitely considerably larger than sick Goku's gap on 19 pre as well. Look at Vegeta's hit power compared to Goku vs #19.

 

[p123]

Yes, but that's also because you have an easy way out. Try making 20 Post > 19 Post and see how impossible it is to get your numbers.

 

[Victorious]

There's really nothing that implies Gero post is over 19 post accept maybe the speed comment? When did Vegeta say that though? Right after Gero absorbed Vegeta's blast? That could just mean Gero post blast speed > Gero pre blast speed.

 

[p123]

Yes, 19 Post could not move fast enough to make Vegeta lose sight of him like that.

 

[Victorious]

If there was a definitive statement obviously I'd change my position but there is not.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Let's see the other side of the coin though. Vic, why you think 19 post is > 20 post?

 

[Victorious]

Well that's just how my numbers turn out. My position is not that 19 HAS to be higher than Gero post. The only definitive fact or position I view is that both pre and post they rival one another since they are constantly lumped in together. I don't mind people putting them post as equals or even Gero slightly higher but then when I see their numbers they look ugly. I also just can't see Vegeta > 19 post as big as Goku > Recoome. My position is very strong on that.

 

[Victorious]

Also sick Goku initial..his gap on 19 pre is smaller than Piccolo's gap on 20 post IMO.

 

[p123]

I don't agree with that. But I made the other stuff happen.

19 Post is 64% of Vegeta.
Cell is 60% of Gohan
Piccolo is 50% of Cell
Semi Cell is 70% of Vegeta
Vegeta is 50% of PC
16 is 50% of Semi Cell
Cui is 60% of Vegeta

Damn, that shit was rough fitting that all in... God damn you Vic, but yea, I know you are right, so I had to work some of that stuff in. What a pain in the ass!

 

[Victorious]

To me Super Vegeta > FP Semi Cell is roughly the same as SSJ Vegeta > 19 post. The tank is roughly equivalent. Vegeta's offensive feats are considerably more impressive vs 19 but that can be explained by Vegeta toying with Semi Cell a bit.

 

[p123]

Super Vegeta's facial expressions show use of a lot more effort than Vegeta vs 19. Vegeta vs 19 is a pretty big stomp and done casually. Super Vegeta vs Semi Cell is a molly whopping, but Cell doesn't retain lasting damage and Vegeta does appear to be trying. But yea, they can be the same in general.

 

[Victorious]

If there's a difference its like 5% at best. Defensive feats Are more impressive (and much more important) than offensive feats. The tank is almost identical not to mention Vegeta had blood drawn against him vs Semi Cell and 19 but Gohan didn't have more blood drawn against him vs Cell. Therefor Vegeta vs 19 is closer overall to the Vegeta vs Semi Cell fight than the Gohan vs FP Cell fight.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

P/Vic what you think of this?:

Vegeta: 150
Piccolo: 135
20 post: 120
Sick Goku: 112.5
20 pre/19 post: 100
SSJ Goku (Yardrat): 90
19 pre/SSJ Trunks (Debut): 75

Other than Piccolo being too close to Vegeta everything fits nicely.

 

[SSJ2]

Why is Piccolo that close?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Just throwing some shit at the wall and trying to see what sticks. I don't really like Piccolo being 80% of Vegeta, let alone 90%.

 

[ahill1]

If one's following #20 post > #19 post, there's no way to conceivably have the latter at less than 66% of SSJ Vegeta unless you nerf the hell outta some gaps. For example:

Android #19 (post) 66
Android #20 (post) 72
Piccolo 82.5
Trunks SSJ 92
Goku SSJ 96
Vegeta SSJ 100

The problem is that those pull #18 and #17 up when you adhere to the 2x boost for the fusion/merge with Kami... and I don't like having #18 more than 1.33x stronger than Vegeta SSJ. Her being 1.5x above Vegeta is really pushing it when her feats against Vegeta don't look as severe as a 1.5x gap. And I also don't like having her out of rivalry range compared to #17, due to #16 stating Piccolo does rival both androids, plus the duo being grouped together on a lot of occasions. Plus #20 post being at 87% of Piccolo, which can work, but meh.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Ahill having Piccolo this close would be a reason to disregard the 2x boost though. Vegeta definitely isn't an ant to Cell and 18 like those numbers would suggest.

 

[Victorious]

Boy I'm glad I don't have to deal with that 20 post > 19 post carp.