Android 19/20 Powers

[p123]

This issue needs to be addressed further.

Couple things I'd like to note from reading this section over...

1) Super Saiyan Goku vs Android 19 is not a huge gap in power. I'd say 19 is 75% of Goku.
2) 20 > 19 for sure, but it doesn't appear 20 wants anything to do with Goku, he is shocked and scared at Goku's power.

Ssj Goku ( Initial ) 100
Android 19 (Post KHH) 90
Android #20 85
Ssj Goku (Post KHH) 80
Android #19 75
SSJ Goku (20's Estimate ) 60-65

Something like that would work here.

 

[ahill1]

Considering 19 appears to have gained a lot of power through the KMHMH's absorption and sick Goku being noticeably above his Yardrat self, I'd have to make a huge gap between sick Goku and 19 pre, even though I don't like it.

19 pre 300
Mecha Trunks 400
19 post 420
Goku sick 500

 

[p123]

I don't think that's suggested. It looks like there's quite a small gap between 19 and Goku. I'd have it like this right now...

Initial Goku > Post 19 > Weakened Goku > Initial 19

 

[Mystic b4 He Got Laid]

Android 20 spending four months in the gym is definetely Hit level

 

[p123]

20 is clearly more in shock of Vegeta's advantage compared to Goku's previous advantage. Vegeta appears to be stronger than 19 by a lot more than Goku was.

 

[Kyo]

The fight suggests a smaller gap but if you believe that Sick Goku is significantly stronger than post-Yardrat Goku then the gap probably can't be that small

 

[ahill1]

Agreed, Vegeta was more dominant over 19 than Goku was. But like Kyouks said, if we go with sick Goku being considerably above Yardrat Goku, then it can't be helped.

 

[ahill1]

P, 20 said 19's power increased astoundingly after absorbing the KMHMH. Do you really think 1.2x works here?

 

[Pyro]

"20% can be a huge increase" because gaps aren't consistent. I mean, look at Vegeta "powering up" on Earth, which even if you go by him now being 19.5k, that's a bit less than a 20% increase.

But more seriously, reading the fight it does seem like 19 isn't so outclassed that he can't at least track Goku's movements, but he is still basically helpless until he absorbs the Kamehameha. The only way to make that a small gap is to have Goku weaker than his post-Yardrat power; having him above or equal to it would make 19 post-absorptions too powerful compared to initial Trunks, which isn't suggested by Vegeta.

 

[p123]

Sure, they were ranting and raving about Freeza's increase in power in his second form. That's usually associated with 1.2x as well. Vegeta powering up to full power on Earth vs Goku was like a hurricane and so on. I'm sure Perfect Cell's power up probably wasn't more than 1.35-1.5x as well. I think we like to power things up too greatly out of preference.

KP here's my resolution for that.

Kaioken is 1.5x boost and on Namek he meant to say Kaioken x2. Works for me.

 

[p123]

"Your legends far outstrip your realities" doesn't mean they can't whoop Trunks weak ass.

Super Saiyan Goku (Sick) > 19 Post/20 Pre > Super Saiyan Goku (Post KHH) > 19 Pre >> Yardrat Goku

I don't see why that can't work.

 

[Pyro]

I can't follow that Kaio-ken 1.5x nonsense, jabroni. Vegeta's line is basically saying the androids can't whoop Trunks' ass like he said they'd be able to, i.e. they're really not all that strong. If they could still whoop Trunks, even just a general one-sided battle, then the legends are still safe.

 

[p123]

No Kaioken 1.5x actually makes a ton of sense.

Vegeta ( Full Power ) > Kaioken x2 Goku > Vegeta ( Initial ) > Kaioken Goku

It explains to us why Goku is surprised about Kkx2 not working, why the narrator speaks about it like it's different and so on. AT clearly wanted to show a large power up there, that is the author's true intention and it's valid.


Beating Trunks is not the legend though KP. They are sold as an impossibly strong opponent that even in 3 years training as hard as they can, don't really have a chance against. That's the legend. Not merely make Trunks shit himself, hell, Goku was already doing that 3 years ago.

 

[ahill1]

I don't see how 19 pre > Yardrat Goku can work. 20 said 19's power has greatly increased from what it was before. If he were already above Yardrat Goku pre absorptions, then his post absorptions self would be a monster for Yardrat Goku, let alone Mecha saga Trunks.

I'd put pre 19 AT MOST at Mecha saga Trunks' level, but more on SSJ 1 arm Gohan.

 

[p123]

Yardrat Goku getting his ass kicked by 19 Pre has no effect on anything. The legend of the Androids is that they would wipe the floor with them in 3 years, even if they trained hard. That' what they are heading into it thinking.

19 Pre is already pretty damn close to Goku, there's no way 19 is weaker than Yardrat Goku, that's madness.

 

[p123]

Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku 950,000,000
Super Saiyan Trunks 900,000,000
Piccolo 750,000,000
Android #20 (Post Absorption) 600,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku (Sick) 500,000,000
Android #20 450,000,000
Android #19 (Post Absorption) 450,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku (Post KHH) 400,000,000
Android #19 350,000,000


I think this look real good. Take a gander.

 

[ahill1]

Looks good. What do you think of #20 being 90% of Piccolo? Too crazy?

 

[p123]

He's definitely not. Piccolo vs Gero is a shitshow, Piccolo has a major lead on him.

I'm rethinking this group needing to be vastly superior to Trunks/Goku. Such an odd story, it's all over the place.

 

[ahill1]

But we can agree #19 losing quite a bit of power after Vegeta's beat sounds reasonable, right? But how strong is #19 (post beating and post Vegeta's absorptions)? Back to this pre beating power/post KMHMH?

 

[p123]

I can see 20 (Post Yamcha) just as strong as Post 19, but no stronger, he's probably marginally weaker in reality. Let's not forget Gero's face when he is watching Goku vs 19. He is in awe and does not look capable of defeating Goku.

No it looks like this imo...

Ssj Vegeta (Full Power >> 20 (Post Yamcha )/19 Post >> Ssj Vegeta ( Post Drain ) > 19 Post (Drain) > 19 (Post Beating )

It would have to be something like that. 19 must be incredibly weakened by the time it drain's Vegeta, that's the only way to make sense of it.

And don't forget, 20 can defeat Drained Vegeta easily.