Androids saga breakdown

[GokhanDBZfan]

Because he is not stated to have trained.

Not for ''some reason'',
I don't think Goku and Trunks got any strong because the years of training are regarded as insignificant in comparison to Goku being a SSJ by Piccolo, SSJ is stated to have reached a limit, Trunks and Freeza from the previous arc are used as a measuring stick, Trunks is still relevant to Goku and Vegeta, etc.

The retcon is directly implied, when Goku goes from fighting Freeza with some difficulty to being able to stomp a strong version of him and his father together, all without a single statement even implying he trained.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Because he is not stated to have trained.

Not for ''some reason'',
I don't think Goku and Trunks got any strong because the years of training are regarded as insignificant in comparison to Goku being a SSJ by Piccolo, SSJ is stated to have reached a limit, Trunks and Freeza from the previous arc are used as a measuring stick, Trunks is still relevant to Goku and Vegeta, etc.

It doesn't have to be stated, when everything but that has been said. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

That clearly is wrong, since Vegeta managed to become even higher than 2nd Form Cell as just a normal Super-Saiyan. It didn't make sense to begin with. It probably was just an excuse for Goku to get into the RoSaT and become even higher and make gains in a short amount of time.

Freeza is not used as a measuring stick. If that's the only showing Trunks had up-to that point then of-course it's going to be used. Freeza was the previous big villain after-all. And Kami and Tenshinhan are so low, even defeating Raditz would seem amazing to him.

 

[SSJ2]

Limits are always broken. Goku thought he hit his absolute limit in the Freeza arc, but was amazed by his own power after his zenkai. He passed his prior limits.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Basically, if we're to assume Piccolo is still weaker than Freeza based on what Kami says, then it means a Mecha Freeza who was nowhere near close to his full-power is stronger than Piccolo. That's just an unnecessary low-ball for Piccolo in the face of everything we see. It also doesn't really go along with the idea of him surpassing the Super Saiyans through doubling his power.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

It doesn't have to be stated, when everything but that has been said. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

That clearly is wrong, since Vegeta managed to become even higher than 2nd Form Cell as just a normal Super-Saiyan. It didn't make sense to begin with. It probably was just an excuse for Goku to get into the RoSaT and become even higher and make gains in a short amount of time.

Freeza is not used as a measuring stick. If that's the only showing Trunks had up-to that point then of-course it's going to be used. Freeza was the previous big villain after-all. And Kami and Tenshinhan are so low, even defeating Raditz would seem amazing to him.

No.Learning techniques and practising a new transformation is completely different from training to gain power.

An excuse for Goku?That's a very weak argument.

Freeza IS used as measuring stick by both Tenshinhan AND Kami, who even states Vegeta is even stronger than Trunks, yet there is no statement regarding Piccolo's power.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Freeza was used as a measuring stick when Krillin said Cell was stronger than him, too. It doesn't really mean anything because we know many guys are already outstripping him.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

It doesn't have to be stated, when everything but that has been said. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

That clearly is wrong, since Vegeta managed to become even higher than 2nd Form Cell as just a normal Super-Saiyan. It didn't make sense to begin with. It probably was just an excuse for Goku to get into the RoSaT and become even higher and make gains in a short amount of time.

Freeza is not used as a measuring stick. If that's the only showing Trunks had up-to that point then of-course it's going to be used. Freeza was the previous big villain after-all. And Kami and Tenshinhan are so low, even defeating Raditz would seem amazing to him.

No.Learning techniques and practising a new transformation is completely different from training to gain power.

An excuse for Goku?That's a very weak argument.

Freeza IS used as measuring stick by both Tenshinhan AND Kami, who even states Vegeta is even stronger than Trunks, yet there is no statement regarding Piccolo's power.

Yeah, because Piccolo isn't higher than Trunks. What are you talking about?

Also I don't mean excuse excuse, but there was a threat at the time, that was threatening to become even higher by absorbing other androids and Zenkais weren't written into the story anymore and they didn't have an extended period to train like the 3 years they did have, so yeah they just went in so that they have a better training environment and can make gains faster.

Try to find excuses for everything.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

We also have to look at the context in which these things are stated.

"Trunks took down Freeza. And he was helpless fighting these Androids."

What sense does it make to mention Piccolo when the Super Saiyans were established as the strongest ones there?

"Piccolo easily beat that old (fake) Android back there, and he was shown to be weak against the real Androids." It'd be completely out of place and pointless. Both Kami and Tien are judging Trunks on his own merits. That's fine. No one believes Piccolo>Trunks.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

No one believes Piccolo>Trunks.

A lot of people here actually do believe that.
Anyway, I am tired and will continue this tommorow.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

No one believes Piccolo>Trunks.

A lot of people here actually do believe that.
Anyway, I am tired and will continue this tommorow.

Only if you believe Trunks didn't get higher. Which a-lot of people actually do. 1 1 1

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Which has zero evidence behind it.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Which has zero evidence behind it.

We do. Like I said everything, but it being out-right & blatantly stated, implied he did get higher.

If you need to hear it blatantly, without picking-up on the clues, then yeah I guess.

 

[Tapion]

I actually have Piccolo pretty darn close to the SSjs.

Piccolo 810
Trunks 840
Goku 860
Vegeta 870

Some stuff like that. Resuming, all of them are above 800 but below 900, which puts the 4 of them in the same league.

 

[ahill1]

I don't know how Kami bringing up Freeza has anything to do with Piccolo.

During Nappa and Vegeta's arrival Nappa referred to Piccolo as the man who killed Raditz, despite all the Z fighters being able to beat him ( except Chaozu, maybe).


Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P4.5-6
Kuririn: “Goku, tell us—This thing’s even more terrible than Freeza. Are you scared by that? Or excited?”
Goku: “…Both…”

Krillin is still bringing up Freeza in front of Goku and freakin Kamiccolo.


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