Bardock (at time of death) vs King Vegeta

[SSJ2]

Who wins?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

King Vegeta wins. He was stated in the Daizenshuu to be the strongest Saiyan at the time of his death, making him stronger than Bardock by default. I doubt Bardock's battle tactics would help him much either, considering the King of the Saiyans should logically be at least every bit as skilled.
Also, if we want to get really technical about Bardock at the time of his death, he had yet to recover from the wounds Dodoria gave him, so he'd definitely lose the stamina game.

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

I'd give this to Bardock. He's been portrayed as being about the same as King Vegeta, but even with a slight advantage in battle power I don't have anything to say about the king regarding any feats. Bardock showed he could take an ass kicking and power up well beyond expectations for a lower class Saiyan. That's more than I can give to King Vegeta, besides being slightly stronger, so I'll caution on the side of feats.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Can we really say he was portrayed on that level though? The only statement suggesting such is dub exclusive and its absence in the Japanese version is rather telling when you'd think a low class drawing close to the king's power would be noteworthy, not to mention he seemed more concerned about how Broly would turn out in the future despite him holding a battle power of 10k already. I guess you could say his son surpassing him as a kid could be seen as limiting things, though it could be Vegeta didn't make overly drastic gains during adulthood when it seemed apparent Goku was the first to make him shed blood.
As for Bardock presenting greater feats, I'd say that's arguable. Anime King Vegeta casually blowing away two planets at once was a more impressive destructive feat than anyone else in the 10-18k range presented. For battle expertise, Dr. Lychee comments in the Hatchiyack OVA that King Vegeta had intelligence rivalling that of Tsufurians, backed up by the GT Perfect Files stating his ability at battle strategies was brilliant even by Saiyan standards.

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

Can we really say he was portrayed on that level though? The only statement suggesting such is dub exclusive and its absence in the Japanese version is rather telling when you'd think a low class drawing close to the king's power would be noteworthy, not to mention he seemed more concerned about how Broly would turn out in the future despite him holding a battle power of 10k already. I guess you could say his son surpassing him as a kid could be seen as limiting things, though it could be Vegeta didn't make overly drastic gains during adulthood when it seemed apparent Goku was the first to make him shed blood.
As for Bardock presenting greater feats, I'd say that's arguable. Anime King Vegeta casually blowing away two planets at once was a more impressive destructive feat than anyone else in the 10-18k range presented. For battle expertise, Dr. Lychee comments in the Hatchiyack OVA that King Vegeta had intelligence rivalling that of Tsufurians, backed up by the GT Perfect Files stating his ability at battle strategies was brilliant even by Saiyan standards.

Good post. I had forgotten about almost everything you mentioned here regarding King Vegeta.

Secondly, my memory of Bardock having a 10k power level and rivaling King Vegeta might be from the dub you are talking about, thinking back. I automatically triggered that response when I thought about Bardock but it's been so long I may have conflated dub and sub.

However, as for Bardock potentially rivaling King Vegeta and going unnoticed (again, I may be using dub logic), the movie seemed to imply that they were growing stronger at a rapid pace due to constantly taking on missions. They were considered low class warriors and were being sent on trash missions on the outskirts of the galaxy, out of Freeza's interest.

I do seem to remember Freeza commenting on how fast certain planets were being seized by Bardock and his team, triggering his concern about the Saiyan threat. But again, it's over a decade since I watched this.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

However, as for Bardock potentially rivaling King Vegeta and going unnoticed (again, I may be using dub logic), the movie seemed to imply that they were growing stronger at a rapid pace due to constantly taking on missions. They were considered low class warriors and were being sent on trash missions on the outskirts of the galaxy, out of Freeza's interest.

I do seem to remember Freeza commenting on how fast certain planets were being seized by Bardock and his team, triggering his concern about the Saiyan threat. But again, it's over a decade since I watched this.

Zarbon's report about Bardock's team taking Kanassa sooner than expected and the concern for the Saiyans from this stemmed from their united strength, with him saying that they weren't worth much individually yet had incredible power as a group. The doctors did comment on how Bardock's strength kept gradually increasing with each mission, though that could be seen as a commentary on the Saiyan race in general. It's worth noting that Dodoria's revelation on Planet Vegeta's destruction also focused on the strength in numbers of the Saiyan and commented on the increasing battle powers of their later generations such as Prince Vegeta rather than directly commenting on the increased rate the combatants on missions were powering up.

Whilst I don't really like to bring up DBH for obvious reasons, Ultimate Mission X reveals the idea that King Vegeta found the Demon Realm planet and used it for secret training. Considering this doesn't directly contradict anything in the canon, not to mention the Bardock Special is no longer "canon" to Toriyama (it is to me though when Virgin Minus Bardock <<< The Toei Special Chaddock ), I'd say it's fair game to use as evidence King Vegeta was no slouch either (which makes sense since it's apparent he didn't like the idea of being Freeza's bootlicker forever).

 

[SSJ2]

I should have mentioned to assume he is at 100% health.

 

[SSJ3 Gothic]

However, as for Bardock potentially rivaling King Vegeta and going unnoticed (again, I may be using dub logic), the movie seemed to imply that they were growing stronger at a rapid pace due to constantly taking on missions. They were considered low class warriors and were being sent on trash missions on the outskirts of the galaxy, out of Freeza's interest.

I do seem to remember Freeza commenting on how fast certain planets were being seized by Bardock and his team, triggering his concern about the Saiyan threat. But again, it's over a decade since I watched this.

Zarbon's report about Bardock's team taking Kanassa sooner than expected and the concern for the Saiyans from this stemmed from their united strength, with him saying that they weren't worth much individually yet had incredible power as a group. The doctors did comment on how Bardock's strength kept gradually increasing with each mission, though that could be seen as a commentary on the Saiyan race in general. It's worth noting that Dodoria's revelation on Planet Vegeta's destruction also focused on the strength in numbers of the Saiyan and commented on the increasing battle powers of their later generations such as Prince Vegeta rather than directly commenting on the increased rate the combatants on missions were powering up.

Whilst I don't really like to bring up DBH for obvious reasons, Ultimate Mission X reveals the idea that King Vegeta found the Demon Realm planet and used it for secret training. Considering this doesn't directly contradict anything in the canon, not to mention the Bardock Special is no longer "canon" to Toriyama (it is to me though when Virgin Minus Bardock <<< The Toei Special Chaddock ), I'd say it's fair game to use as evidence King Vegeta was no slouch either (which makes sense since it's apparent he didn't like the idea of being Freeza's bootlicker forever).

Nice. I wasn't sure because now that I think about it, I don't believe I've ever seen the Bardock special with the sub. I had the VHS back in the day so it was almost certainly the dub. So there's some of what I said in evidence for Bardock, but you've got a lot more for King Vegeta than I remember.

 

[Pyro]

Was the Bardock OVA ever really canon?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Toriyama essentially gave him a stamp of approval prior to Minus with how much he praised Toei's job with the special to the point of even inserting him into the manga, so I'd probably say so.

 

[Papasmurf]

If Toriyama approves of Toyotaro's bullshit and still doesn't put anime and manga exclusive forms like Blue Kaioken and SSJBE into his canon Broly movie, I really doubt AT giving approval to an anime-only project really means anything. I could have even seen the merits of this argument (pre-Broly movie at least) back when Episode of Bardock was a thing, but AT retconned even Bardock's headband and clothes as of Minus.

Minus is , but it's canon. The Bardock special isn't any more canon than the Trunks special's depiction of Trunks' first transformation.

AT liked Fusion Reborn enough to praise Janemba's design, and even canonized their depiction of Gogeta. In fact, it even influenced the creation of Vegetto. None of those things makes Fusion Reborn canon, it just makes DBS Gogeta canon.

 

[Future Warrior]

If Toriyama approves of Toyotaro's bullshit and still doesn't put anime and manga exclusive forms like Blue Kaioken and SSJBE into his canon Broly movie, I really doubt AT giving approval to an anime-only project really means anything. I could have even seen the merits of this argument (pre-Broly movie at least) back when Episode of Bardock was a thing, but AT retconned even Bardock's headband and clothes as of Minus.

Minus is , but it's canon. The Bardock special isn't any more canon than the Trunks special's depiction of Trunks' first transformation.

AT liked Fusion Reborn enough to praise Janemba's design, and even canonized their depiction of Gogeta. In fact, it even influenced the creation of Vegetto. None of those things makes Fusion Reborn canon, it just makes DBS Gogeta canon.

But nothing aside from AT's DB manga is canon tho.

 

[Papasmurf]

Jaco and DB Minus are AT's (poor attempt at creating a) DB prequel.

 

[Future Warrior]

Ok, maybe Minus and Jaco but nothing else besides that.