Base Saiyans (Boo saga)

[kriss-]

Gohan is considered the most dangerous on the Earth team before it's even revealed he could transform, and we see clearly see this is the case when Gohan tells Piccolo to back off and let him fight Shisami/Tagoma. All of this is shown and stated in the same exact source you're using for Freeza>Base Saiyans. Stop being a hypocrite.

Gohan was in his Ultimate form at the time the Base Saiyan statement was made. So he's entirely excluded from it. Nobody knows how his Mystic form works, and his power from that particular form could have seaped into his transformations.

It doesn't however, have any bearing on Goten, Trunks, Vegeta or Goku.

Herpa derp.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Completely wrong. Gohan took his glasses off and transformed into Ultimate before Beers knocked his ass out. He wasn't in Ultimate when the statement was made at all.

 

[kriss-]

He powered up, nothing more.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

He did the same thing he did to reach Ultimate in the Boo saga. He fired it up like Super Saiyan. Playing semantics won't change the fact that you're wrong.

 

[kriss-]

[youtube]uqVpanwYSgo[/youtube]

[youtube]WeD5fWqRX-8[/youtube]

No change is seen or noted in either scene so you're obviously pulling things out of your ass in an attempt to sound right as usual.

I'm not arguing semantics nor am I wrong.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

No proof for Gohan that he knew how strong is Kibito.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo knew that Kaioshin was in a different dimension from him, but he couldn't fully understand his Ki. The implication is that the Z-Fighters can sense them but they just can't completely understand what they're sensing. Gohan's point stands.

 

[kriss-]

He did the same thing he did to reach Ultimate in the Boo saga. He fired it up like Super Saiyan. Playing semantics won't change the fact that you're wrong.

Even in the Manga, Gohan is passed out and remains in his Ultimate form. But because you're 'Evil Vegeta' and have you have to convince yourself that your right, under any circumstances, you disregard everything to try and make your case stronger. In this case, Gohan was in his Base form and turned Ultimate, the Manga disregards your ideology completely.

Please just stahp.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Those videos don't help you. He still had to power-up to put out his full-power. That's exactly why he realized he couldn't do it when fighting Ginyu Tagoma. What exactly are those supposed to prove other than he's not walking around at full-power?

Gohan is clearly stated to be the most dangerous on the Earth team during ROF before it was revealed he could transform. Piccolo is on the same team. Unless you're going to say Piccolo is weaker than Freeza, you're just plain wrong.

 

[kriss-]

While Gohan was passed out he was at full power? Please prove that. My point above takes care of your response up there.

Gohan is exclusive of the statement because he was Mystic at the time the statement was made and we don't know how his Mytic form works with his SSj and Base transformation, but it clearly works differently; even transforming into a Super Saiyan is implied to work differently for him now.

All and all, Gohan is entirely exclusive of the statement because it isn't reflective of his battle power at that time.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Piccolo knew that Kaioshin was in a different dimension from him, but he couldn't fully understand his Ki. The implication is that the Z-Fighters can sense them but they just can't completely understand what they're sensing. Gohan's point stands.

Dimension status? Yes.

Gohan was just SPECULATING Kibito's power based on his appearance.

 

[kriss-]

Piccolo knew that Kaioshin was in a different dimension from him, but he couldn't fully understand his Ki. The implication is that the Z-Fighters can sense them but they just can't completely understand what they're sensing. Gohan's point stands.

Dimension status? Yes.

Gohan was just SPECULATING Kibito's power based on his appearance.

Dimension ALWAYS reflects strength

Gohan's speculation was not contradicted. Statements within a story are true until contradicted

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Piccolo knew that Kaioshin was in a different dimension from him, but he couldn't fully understand his Ki. The implication is that the Z-Fighters can sense them but they just can't completely understand what they're sensing. Gohan's point stands.

Dimension status? Yes.

Gohan was just SPECULATING Kibito's power based on his appearance.

Dimension ALWAYS reflects strength

Gohan's speculation was not contradicted. Statements within a story are true until contradicted

Really? Let's say yes, then how can you explained Kaioshin being afraidn against Yakon and need to gang up against him while Goku doing ok against him?

Gohan's speculation was never proven either therefore it's not a fact.

 

[kriss-]

Dimension status? Yes.

Gohan was just SPECULATING Kibito's power based on his appearance.

Dimension ALWAYS reflects strength

Gohan's speculation was not contradicted. Statements within a story are true until contradicted

Really? Let's say yes, then how can you explained Kaioshin being afraidn against Yakon and need to gang up against him while Goku doing ok against him?

Gohan's speculation was never proven either therefore it's not a fact.

Gotenks SSj Pre was never proven therefore it's not a fact.

See how easy I can flip your mundane logic on you?

Anyways, I have one more thing to say on this thread and then I'm out:


Gohan was passed out when Kid Boo destroyed Earth, he had no control of his body and by the virtue of your argument, should have reverted into his Base state; but he didn't , he remained the same. And because Akira Toriyama stated that everybody was in their peak condition at this time, it implies that this version of Gohan is the same version as beforehand. Therefore, he cannot revert to his Base form and he did not power-up into his Mystic form. So he's entirely exclusive of the statement.

Dragonball Super may be something else entirely, but it's not the official depiction of said statement because Akira Toriyama wrote 100% of the dialogue for that particular film, for Super, he does nothing more then write a few ideas and throws them to Toei.

Therefore, the Base Saiyan statement still stands and is entirely reflective of everybody at the time except Gohan because he wasn't in his Base form. This is backed by the official god of Dragonball, Akira Toriyama.

I have nothing more to say about this with you, so reply if you wish. But I know for a fact that whatever you say won't matter at this point.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Idk what you're talking about.

 

[kriss-]

Idk what you're talking about.

I was making fun of your logic and pointing out its flaws.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Was Gohan in Ultimate during ROF? The answer is no. He tells us he can't put out his full-power. That also tells us he's not walking around in a state that puts out his full-power, thus eliminating your special rule on Gohan. None of them walk around in full-power because there's no reason to.

Was Gohan said to be the most dangerous on the Earth team before it was revealed he could transform? The answer is yes. That means he's above Piccolo, or at the very least, within his range of power. Keep in mind that Gohan no longer has Ultimate because he wasn't training, so he's nothing more than Base Gohan.

Even if you want to completely ignore this, Gohan is later shown training hard with Piccolo in Base form. That's another feat that places the untrained Base Gohan above Freeza. Now I'm guessing you're going to say Piccolo was suppressed down to Zarbon level or Gohan was pseudo Ultimate there despite having the same appearance as he did in ROF. Either way, a rusty Gohan was shown to be above Freeza on Namek despite no longer having Ultimate.

Taking it back to the Boo saga, the Daizenshuu also says Kaioshin was scared of Yakon, while we see Goku only used his Super Saiyan transformation for a flashlight to see him. Wonder why the guy who can one-shot Freeza is scared of someone like Yakon. The same Kaioshin also doesn't think he can even beat Goku before seeing his Super Saiyan.

 

[kriss-]

Everything above is disregarded from my post above.

Anyways, I went over the fight and Gohan's Base form didn't even stand a chance. Ginyu was completely annoyed by him.

Freeza can still be stronger then Base Gohan during ROF and there would be nothing wrong with it.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

You didn't disregard anything. Piccolo powered-up and proceeded to get his arm torn off by Tagoma, then got knocked down by Ginyu a bit later. He was no longer able to fight, leaving it up to Gohan to take him on alone. Gohan was clearly portrayed as the best on the team without being Super Saiyan.

Anyway, the Daizenshuu says Kaioshin is scared of Yakon, who Goku could fight in his Base. Kaioshin also doubts he could beat Goku in a fight while being completely oblivious to how strong they are as Super Saiyans. All from the very manga and Daiz you like to cite when it's convenient, but ignore when it shows otherwise. Why exactly is Kaioshin scared of Yakon if he could one-shot Freeza?

 

[kriss-]

You're focusing on a secondary source while I'm focusing on the official source. It disregards your point completely.

Gohan managed nothing either, until he became a Super Saiyan. So the fact remains, even according to your secondary source.

Piccolo is scared of Kaioshin. Your point proves nothing.