Base Saiyans (Boo saga)

[GokhanDBZfan]

But he is completely garbage. Freeza is nothing to guys like #17 or #18 and a guy much stronger than them [Piccolo] was considered pretty much useless.

When was that?

Yeah, I agree. I don't see a need to have base Future Trunks (Cell Games) that strong, better saying he is probably weaker than the Future Androids, but the problem is that the adult base Saiyans from Boo saga are implied to be that strong.

Outside of their confidence winning the Budokai in Base, they really don't need to be that strong.
It's just Vegeta comparing himself with Goku and Gohan anyway, since that's why he came to that Budokai in the first place.

Because, like you said, the base kids are probably weaker than 18, while base Vegeta was enough to surprise Kaioshin and be confident in winning the tournament knowing opponents like Piccolo would participate (even though Piccolo wasn't in the spaceship in that moment). Green Man should be way stronger than Piccolo.

But I don't think suprising Kaioshin in that scene is a noteworthy feat, since the guy flat-out forgets SSJ2 Gohan's power.
Regarding the Budokai, I don't think he had Piccolo or 18 in mind, since he came to that Budokai just because of Goku.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

How strong do you think they are? Do you think an exaggeration to have base Goku and Vegeta approaching Perfect Cell tier?

It absolutely is.
Even disregarding that one certain statement from the new material, Freeza is still somewhat used as a measuring stick for Boo's strength and Goku still considers it '' amazin' '' for Boo to able to kill the Kaioshins, who could kill Freeza in one hit.
Beyond that, there is Future Trunks still requiring to use Super Saiyan to beat the androids and Cell and Android 18 being stronger than Base form Goten and Trunks, who are relevant to the adult Super Saiyans.

Akira Toriyama (aka God) has already stated that Base Saiyans are weaker then Freeza.

Arguing anything but is only a reflection of your personal cannon and not reflective of the events that actually occurred in Dragonball.

Nope. Go rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku in DBS. It's pretty clear Beerus has no idea how to sense ki. Not to mention the base RoF Gohan >>> Piccolo feat in the RoF arc (Gohan did way better against Ginyu).

I have Kaioshin > base Saiyans > Piccolo > #18 > Freeza

 

[kriss-]

Gohan did nothing in his Base form against Ginyu. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Freeza being stronger then Base Saiyans is stated in three official sources and in one of those sources, it's dialogue written by Akira Toriyama himself. It's a valid fact and no amount of speculative conjecture can change that.

Your personal canon has limits, Toriyama doesn't.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

Gohan did nothing in his Base form against Ginyu. It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Freeza being stronger then Base Saiyans is stated in three official sources and in one of those sources, it's dialogue written by Akira Toriyama himself. It's a valid fact and no amount of speculative conjecture can change that.

Your personal canon has limits, Toriyama doesn't.

I'm only aware of 2 sources: BoG and DBS. What's the third

 

[kriss-]

The Manga adaption of Dragonball Super.

 

[xmysticgohanx]

Where is "dialogue written by Toriyama himself" at then? And Gohan really did outshine Piccolo

 

[kriss-]

Ginyu was completely unimpressed with Gohan and effortlessly blocked his punches. He was only overwhelmed once Gohan became a Super Saiyan. This argument does not support your claim because we can completely disregard it based on the merits of what actually happened.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-gods-animanga-akira-toriyama/

Akira Toriyama:

With what stance did you approach your work?
To be honest, I was busy as it was with just my own job1, so I didn’t intend to get involved with the animation. The rough script I read in order to check it over had an interesting-sounding theme of a God of Destruction, but the contents were a little dark, so while I was in the midst of giving advice on how to improve it, I got carried away and ended up writing almost everything.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Nope. Go rewatch Beerus "sensing" Goku in DBS. It's pretty clear Beerus has no idea how to sense ki. Not to mention the base RoF Gohan >>> Piccolo feat in the RoF arc (Gohan did way better against Ginyu).

I have Kaioshin > base Saiyans > Piccolo > #18 > Freeza

As I've said, the implication of Freeza still being relevant is in the manga.
I don't have much knowledge on the new sh*t nor do I intend to watch it any time soon with the exception of this new Trunks arc., so I go purely by the manga.