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How does this go?
Agreed, he also clowns Imperfect Cell, but according to the Buu Saga implications, Trunks should be well ahead of the Future Androids.By my subjective numbers, Vegeta. It's complicated because Trunks does use Super Saiyan to beat the Future Androids but he could have been proceeding cautiously.
That's basically what it comes down to. We are initially given the impression that the kids are somewhat competitive with the adults. We're later revealed that the Base Kids are only on par with Android 18 whereas the Base Adults are above Piccolo and likely above Kaioshin by a significant margin. That may tell us that the Buu Saga essentially changes everything in regards to the powerscaling.Agreed, he also clowns Imperfect Cell, but according to the Buu Saga implications, Trunks should be well ahead of the Future Androids.
...Vegeta
Could Base Vegeta last more than 1 hit against SSJ Vegeta? Sure, the Jrs were holding back, but only so the fodder wouldn’t die.
I agree with this, however I don't believe Piccolo needs to be that far below 50% Goku to satisfy this. Piccolo knew 50% Goku had no chance against Cell as Goku had already established that after leaving the RoSaT. Piccolo is also smart enough to understand that Goku's 50% display wasn't his full power, so even if Piccolo got close to that level, he should know that he would be useless against Cell. I've always had Piccolo = 40% Goku which I believe works with the implications.Even with Cell Saga implications, I don't think Piccolo was ever intended to be close to Vegeta and Trunks. Piccolo should be below 50% MSSJ Goku. He views himself as completely useless against Cell after training in the Rosat.
The problem I have with this is Cell immediately instructed the Jrs to make the Z Senshi feel pain, or even kill them if they wished. We see that all of the humans were swiftly beaten until they were unconscious, and yet Piccolo is seen fighting back on several pages, let alone the chapter cover page where he looks like he's somewhat competitive. Why would Piccolo still be in relatively good shape if the Jrs had no problem nearly killing the humans? There's also the fact that the strength checker makes it clear that Cell isn't 100% only saying that Vegeta and Trunks were holding their own, there is some ambiguity there.Piccolo's performance can be explained by the Cell Jrs. choosing to use the same power against the humans & Goku as they did against Piccolo. It's confirmed that only Trunks and Vegeta could compete with the Cell Jrs. so they had to be holding back by an arbitrary amount against Piccolo regardless.
This is admittedly the hardest one to hand wave. I've always looked at it as Vegeta only having interest in fighting/beating the Saiyans. Considering how hyper-focused he was on Goku during that day, can we really say with confidence that Piccolo was on his radar?Those include the Base Saiyans believing they could win the tournament
Can you expand on this one?Gohan only considering Super Saiyan against Kibito after being provoked
This one is an odd one because even though they understood that the Saiyans had the most power, they were also confident that Pui Pui would be able to beat them, along with Kaioshin. The Z Senshi were all suppressed to 0 so I'm not sure how much we can really take away from this when we saw how clueless Babidi and Dabra were later on.Dabura and Babidi recognizing the Base Saiyans as the strongest among a group including Piccolo
Even when Piccolo was the one who surpassed Vegeta, Vegeta's only thought was being better than Goku.Vegeta specifically says he only wanted to fight Goku, but it could be argued he sees Piccolo as uninteresting fodder.
They did take hits, but Piccolo is seen actually blocking or attacking the Jrs. Goku only fought back against Freeza with Kaioken x10 and he still couldn't manage to land a blow or make Freeza block his attacks.Using DBS logic it’s perfectly possible for Piccolo to stay on his feet against the Jrs, but on DBZ logic the closest example is Base Goku taking hits from 50% Freeza. I think Piccolo also took some licks when the Genki-Dama was being charged?
I've always had Piccolo = 40% Goku which I believe works with the implications.
What about when he freaked out when Kamiccolo surpassed him?Even when Piccolo was the one who surpassed Vegeta, Vegeta's only thought was being better than Goku.
Vegeta is simply uninterested in Piccolo, and power doesn't seem to be the reason why.
They did take hits, but Piccolo is seen actually blocking or attacking the Jrs. Goku only fought back against Freeza with Kaioken x10 and he still couldn't manage to land a blow or make Freeza block his attacks.
Well sure, he was angry that he was surpassed, but it seemed to be mostly the fact that Super Saiyan had become a joke. He seemed to care more about Piccolo when both of them were fodder after Namek than anything. After that point his sole obsession was with Goku.What about when he freaked out when Kamiccolo surpassed him?