Base Vegeta (Cell Games) vs Piccolo (Cell Games)

[FeatsofPower]

Goku was saying to himself. By that logic, he shouldn't worry about Gohan, Vegeta....

It's already been established to all the characters that the Saiyans are the only competitive ones.

So Gohan ends up thinking he's outmatched, Vegeta thinks he will win, Goku thinks he will win. But Goku doesn't know Gohan didn't train. So it's kind of up in the air. You have to differentiate group thought and individual thought and author narrative here.

He's just assessing the competitors besides the main team. Let's not toss out statements without considering context, ppl

You are the one missing the context though. There are multiple layers going on, you are picking one and saying, Eureka this is it! It's a nuanced discussion.

 

[ahill1]

How that statement comes accross as base > Piccolo is just beyond me.....

 

[FeatsofPower]

How that statement comes accross as base > Piccolo is just beyond me.....

It's an addition to the ever growing number of power concepts being portrayed.

They don't have to worry about anyone except themselves, ie, the Saiyans, but now, these new two entering the fray, might be a problem.

It's a continuation of the developing narrative.

 

[ahill1]

Goku doesn't say we Saiyans. And he's just assessing the competitors outside the main team. He doesn't know how Gohan and Vegeta are in strength. He literally said out of the competitors they are the only ones to catch attention. It says nothing about Saiyans, Piccolo, nothing.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Goku doesn't say we Saiyans.

Does Goku have to worry about Krillen?

 

[ahill1]

Does Goku need to worry about Vegeta?

 

[Goku9001]

Goku was saying to himself. By that logic, he shouldn't worry about Gohan, Vegeta....

He's just assessing the competitors besides the main team. Let's not toss out statements without considering context, ppl

To keep it simple, Goku wouldn't be making this claim if he knew they were weaker than him. Their strength is unknown which means he has to account for the possibility where they could beat him. This would mean they would have to be stronger than Piccolo. The narrative makes no suggestion that Goku was concerned about Piccolo.

 

[Goku9001]

Does Goku need to worry about Vegeta?

Uhhh no. Did you not read the manga where Goku is like "Wow Vegeta! I didn't expect you to be that great of a genius," during their fight. He definitely expected Vegeta to be weaker than him.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Does Goku need to worry about Vegeta?

Indeed. And Gohan.

All the Saiyans know exactly how strong Piccolo was 7 years ago. Yet none of them acknowledge him as any sort of threat.

The Saiyans are the only ones capable of winning the tournament. Then, the Saiyans are still the only ones capable of winning, but now, even in BASE! That's the big shocker. Wow, these guys are this strong now? MSSJ training really brought the best out of them and we come to find out Piccolo isn't nearly as strong as we'd originally assumed.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Uhhh no. Did you not read the manga where Goku is like "Wow Vegeta! I didn't expect you to be that great of a genius," during their fight. He definitely expected Vegeta to be weaker than him.

True, but Goku had also gotten a sample of Vegeta at this point too. Might be a bit different at the Budokai then after his fight with Pui Pui.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Do you guys think Gohan values winning over his secret identity?

 

[Goku9001]

True, but Goku had also gotten a sample of Vegeta at this point too. Might be a bit different at the Budokai then after his fight with Pui Pui.

Fair. I think it's fair to say that Goku expects a good fight with Vegeta and Gohan but expects to have a solid chance at winning. That seems to be mutual amongst Gohan and Vegeta as well. They express concerns towards Kibito and Kaioshin primarily because they may be far too strong to handle rather than being a strictly competitive fight.

 

[ahill1]

To keep it simple, Goku wouldn't be making this claim if he knew they were weaker than him. Their strength is unknown which means he has to account for the possibility where they could beat him. This would mean they would have to be stronger than Piccolo. The narrative makes no suggestion that Goku was concerned about Piccolo.

Because Goku isn't concerned about Piccolo. He knows Piccolo, and knows Piccolo isn't there to win unfairly when Piccolo knows the Saiyans are handicapping themselves on purpose. And even if Piccolo decided out of character to do that, he could turn SSJ in less than a second and KO Piccolo. He had the control to use SSJ2 in a quick burst, and he's very used to SSJ, to the point of mastery. Easy pisy

 

[Goku9001]

Do you guys think Gohan values winning over his secret identity?

Who cares. It's all hogwash now. Gohan prioritized winning once he was ratted out.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Who cares. It's all hogwash now. Gohan prioritized winning once he was ratted out.

You should really take Feats' advice man. And it's not even deep narrative thinking here, just reading the speech bubbles. Gohan keeps mentioning trying to salvage his id and only talks about winning once.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Fair. I think it's fair to say that Goku expects a good fight with Vegeta and Gohan but expects to have a solid chance at winning. That seems to be mutual amongst Gohan and Vegeta as well. They express concerns towards Kibito and Kaioshin primarily because they may be far too strong to handle rather than being a strictly competitive fight.

Yeah, Goku seems confident in winning and Vegeta does as well. Gohan is the only one who seems to lose some confidence after getting closer to the tournament. Probably realized hey these guys been training their butts off for 7 years and I did nothing lol.

Because Goku isn't concerned about Piccolo. He knows Piccolo, and knows Piccolo isn't there to win unfairly when Piccolo knows the Saiyans are handicapping themselves on purpose.

This is your own thinking, not Goku's. The Saiyans aren't handicapping, they are still head and shoulders above everyone.

 

[Goku9001]

Because Goku isn't concerned about Piccolo. He knows Piccolo, and knows Piccolo isn't there to win unfairly when Piccolo knows the Saiyans are handicapping themselves on purpose. And even if Piccolo decided out of character to do that, he could turn SSJ in less than a second and KO Piccolo. He had the control to use SSJ2 in a quick burst, and he's very used to SSJ, to the point of mastery. Easy pisy

"Goku isn't concerned about Piccolo because Goku isn't concerned about Piccolo."

You're just restating your claim as the argument. Goku wouldn't be concerned about Piccolo because he knows he can win. The context lends itself to that conclusion because Goku is entering a tournament in which he wants to win. If he isn't concerned about Piccolo, then he simply doesn't view him as an obstacle. Nor does Goku feel the need to break the "no Super Saiyan" rule at any point of the tournament.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Gohan keeps mentioning trying to salvage his id and only talks about winning once.

Why does Gohan care about winning in the first place?

 

[Goku9001]

You should really take Feats' advice man. And it's not even deep narrative thinking here, just reading the speech bubbles. Gohan keeps mentioning trying to salvage his id and only talks about winning once.

Gohan acknowledged that he couldn't salvage his identity once he was ratted out. This is blatantly shown.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Gohan acknowledged that he couldn't salvage his identity once he was ratted out. This is blatantly shown.

And instead of quitting the tournament, he goes on to say, "Well I guess that's it for school!" and continues to completely blow up his spot revealing himself not only as Saiyaman but as the Golden Warrior as well. An identity he holds far more precious than the Saiyaman identity.