Beerus vs Super-Saiyan 2 Kefla
- Thread starter Fantastische Hure
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Why do you like the sperm of Broli so much if you now have a female one, noob?Pocket-God said:Don't even waste your time with him, Pakl is a joke
Also funny you call me a joke.... Coming from the guy who says Broli is stronger than SSjin 3 Goku... Lol pleast step aside and let the ones who watched the show to argue... Umad bitch? :rape
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Time: 4m59sCaptain Cadaver said:
Whis: Kefla-san's energy rivalled the power of the Genki-Dama he bathed in.
Whis outright says SSJ Kefla ~ Kaioken x20 Blue Goku's Genki-Dama
Time: 7m26s
Piccolo: Kefla is definitely growing. Her power is unbelievable.
Piccolo says this after already witnessing UI Goku and Jiren.
Time: 7m58s
Piccolo: This power...It might even surpass Son's earlier level.
SS2 Kefla > Initial UI Goku
It is true based on the evidence we're given. Either that, or Whis was estimating Jiren's full power and not what he actually showed.
As illogical as it is, SS2 Kefla > SSB Vegetto is possible, considering by Super's logic Kefla was becoming far stronger just from facing a stronger opponent (and being a Mary Sue fusion).
Neither does about 99% of Super. That doesn't mean you can blatantly ignore evidence if debating the series.
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How do you know Piccolo didnt refer to Blue kaioken Goku when he said his earlier level? I mean, he said it before UI Goku was said to power up more than when he fought Jiren
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Pakl said:
The context of the scene is that Kefla and Goku push each other to power-up in order to one-up each other (which is emphasized by Piccolo's second statement during said scene). It wouldn't make sense if SSJ2 Kefla wasn't, at very least, above Initial UI Goku. Goku even said that he wouldn't power-up any further, since it's "enough", implying that he previously needed to.
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Because nothing suggests he was referring to that level, especially not with Whis and Beerus' comments on Kefla's power and her already being as strong as 20x Kaioken Blue Goku with SSJ alone.Pakl said:
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Genki-Dama >>> 20x Kaio-Ken SSj-Blue Goku or else why would he use it when all else fails?Pakl said:
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Pakl said:
Genkidama > 20x Kaioken. Why else Goku was surprised it didn't work on Jiren after getting stomped ?
That's a nice point. However, the main point is that Kefla's power pushed Goku beyond his limits to win, making it clear Ultra Instinct was absolutely needed to take her down. Goku even says "You can't beat me anymore", meaning Kefla was still stronger than him even with Kaioken.
From there, having her equal to Genkidama isn't much of a stretch.
All it took was one hit to knock Goku out, though. And we don't know which Kaioken multiplier was being used. Before Whis said anything, we didn't know that Goku was using KKx20, meaning he doesn't need to say which multiplier he's using in order to use it.
So he could have used KKx2 like KKx20 for all we know.
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Goku said "kaioken"... When he uses an overall level of kaioken he mentions it... Also Kefla had troubles with Blue Goku... She beat Goku because she caught him off guard... Goku awakening Ultra Instinct doesnt mean he can only beat her like that (I am not denying she is stronger but thats not the proof) remember Goku was still tired...Keedounan said:
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Pakl said:
The fight against Freeza back on Namek, then against Jiren are evidences that he doesn't need to do it.
Before knocking him out of his Blue form in one hit, besides...
...that alone shouldn't be enough to knock him out of SSJB if Goku was that much stronger with Kaioken. The last time an opponent managed to do that was Hit (who is almost as strong as Goku Blue) who knocked him out of SSJB, and this hurt Goku a lot, but he could turn back into Blue just fine right afterwards.
Which isn't the case here. You can argue that Goku didn't have all of his stamina, but the mere fact she knocked him out is enough to place her in the same category as Kaioken (x?) Goku at very least.
The whole point of the Ultra Instinct is to push him to his limits in a situation that he can't overcome otherwise. That's the point of the comparison with Goku surviving the Genkidama: he had to overcome his limits to survive. It's the same here, he has to overcome his limits to beat Kefla.
Even if Goku was somehow stronger than SSJ Kefla without UI (which is doubtful), he'd stand absolutely no chance against her SSJ2.
1)Kefla > Goku's earlier level. This line alone is ambiguous, however, it's quickly followed by...
2)Piccolo saying "but if Kefla's power up could further draw out [UI Goku] Son's power." A term of opposition to the last statement, as well as Piccolo mentionning the need for Kefla to draw out Goku's power, both of which wouldn't be needed if Goku was already stronger.
3)UI Goku couldn't damage much Kefla, as shown by the fact she keeps going just fine, and stated by both her and Whis. Granted, it's because Goku doesn't fully master UI, but considering how strong UI Goku (vs Jiren) was already strong enough to put his KKx20, Genkidama, his hypothetical power while absorbing said Genkidama (according to Tien), as well the combined power of KKx20 and Genkidama, to shame.
As such, an unmastered, but stronger than earlier UI Goku should be much stronger than KKx20 as well, yet he failed to severely damage Kefla.
4)And of course, Roshi stated her last attack would have killed Goku.
I think that's enough proof for you. Otherwise, you'll have to gloss over the entire episode.
You can still put out 100 % of your strength when you're tired, just not nearly as long as when you're fresh, causing your strength to progressively decrease. And even then, the opposite logic is happening in Super (because plot): Goku goes from unable to walk to able to use an even stronger Ultra Instinct than in his fight against Jiren.
Not to mention it's an unquantifiable value, so there is no guarantee Goku Blue would have been able to beat SSJ Kefla even with all of his stamina.
