Black, ToP and Moro arcs power levels

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I've reverted to Gohan and Kefla > Goku logic so decided to make a new list. I think Kuririn might have expected Goku to have more power than he had shown, or perhaps was referring to Gohan keeping up in the future.

Goku Black

Goku: 100
~ SSJ: 250
~ SSJ2: 312.5
~ SSJ3: 625
~ SSJG: 2,500
~ SSJB: 3,750

Trunks: 120
~ SSJ2 (Suppressed): 320
~ SSJ2 (Full Power): 600

Goku Black: 675
~ Vs Vegeta: 750
~ SSJ: 900

Vegeta: 100
~ SSJ2: 1,000
~ SSJB: 3,750

Zamasu: 450
SSJ Goku Black (Zenkai): 2,250
SSJB Vegeta (Shouki loss): 2,250

SSJ Rosé Goku Black: 3,000

SSJG Vegeta: 2,500
~ SSJB (Bursts): 3,750

Merged Zamasu: 5,000
~ Full Power: 6,000

Vegetto:
~ Post Senzu: 12,500
~ SSJB:

PSSJB Goku: 6,250

Tournament of Power

PSSJB Goku/Vegeta: 6,250

Freeza: 247.5
~ Golden Form: 6,187.5

#17: 6,750

Gohan (Initial): 150
Piccolo: 150

Trio De Danger: 90 - 135

Pride Troopers: <125
Dyspo: 625
Toppo: 6,250

Jiren: 10,000

Hit: 6,400
~ Time Cage: 12,800

Jiren (Powered up): 15,000

Cabba: 100
~ SSJ: 250

Caulifla: 120
~ SSJ: 300

Kale: 500
~ LSSJ: 5,000
~ LSSJ (Peak): 7,500

SSJ Kefla: 15,000
Gohan (Vs Kefla): 15,000

PSSJB Goku (Blue Kaio-Ken): 18,750
Jiren (Powered up): 30,000
SSJBE Vegeta: 25,000

Ultra Instinct Goku (Omen): 250,000
~ Complete: 500,000

Jiren (Serious): 240,000
~ Full Power: 400,000
~ Beyond Limits: 480,000

Quitela: 1,250,000
Beerus: 1,200,000 (800,000 in the past)
Rumoosh: 1,125,000
Mosco: 1,000,000
Champa: 750,000
Iwan: 625,000
Liquiir: 562,500
Heles: 540,000
Sidra: 500,000
Gin: 480,000
Arak: 450,000
Belmond: 375,000

Broly

Goku/Vegeta: 120
~ SSJ: 300
~ SSJG: 3,000
~ PSSJB: 7,500

Broly: 120
~ Full Power: 600
~ Ikari: 6,000
~ LSSJ: 30,000
~ LSSJ (Peak): 600,000

Gogeta: 12,000
~ SSJ: 30,000
~ PSSJB: 750,000

Moro

Goku: 150
~ SSJ: 375
~ SSJ2: 468.75
~ SSJ3: 937.5
~ SSJG: 3,750
~ PSSJB: 9,375

Vegeta: 150
~ SSJ: 375
~ SSJ2: 1,500
~ SSJG: 3,750
~ PSSJB: 9,375
~ SSJBE: 37,500

Moro: 1,500
~ Some of Namek's energy: 1,650
~ Youth Restored: 4,500
~ Post 3 days: 5,000
~ Full Power Restored: 6,250
~ Namek's energy absorbed: 7,500

Dai Kaioshin Boo: 6,000

2 months later...

#18: 15,000
#17: 18,000
Piccolo: 22,500
Gohan: 25,000

Super Saganbo: 50,000
~ Moro's power: 55,000
~ Moro's power: 60,500
~ Moro's power: 66,550
~ Moro's power: 73,205
~ Moro's power: 80,525.5

Goku: 500
~ PSSJB: 62,500
~ UI Sign (Supressed): 250,000
~ UI Sign (Full Power): 312,500
~ UI Sign (Beyond Limits): 375,000

Moro (Post absorptions): 250,000
~ Powered up: 312,500
~ Full power: 500,000

Vegeta: 750
~ PSSJB: 93,750
~ SSJBE: 375,000

Moro (7-3 eaten): 505,000

Merus: 781,250
MUI Goku: 781,250
Angel Moro: 781,250

Granolah

UI Goku: 1,000,000
SSJBE Vegeta: 750,000

Beerus: 1,200,000

 

[Pyro]

How is Broly that much stronger than Moro? Tell me your blaspheming reasons now.

 

[Keedounan]

How is Broly that much stronger than Moro? Tell me your blaspheming reasons now.

I'll do you one better: how is MUI Goku weaker than in ToP?

I'm guessing someone based the power levels off of the current Sign level and forgot that they were talking about MUI.

 

[Pyro]

Oh, yeah, totally missed that. Dawg, this list is bonkers. What the fuck?

 

[SSJ2]

Burst Vegeta = CSSJB Goku? What?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

How is Broly that much stronger than Moro? Tell me your blaspheming reasons now.

Broly is actually stronger than Beerus, Moro isn't. He also required the superior method that is fusion to be stopped.

I'll do you one better: how is MUI Goku weaker than in ToP?

I'm guessing someone based the power levels off of the current Sign level and forgot that they were talking about MUI.

Read them again

Burst Vegeta = CSSJB Goku? What?

Both are stated to be using the full power of SSJB, only difference is Goku can do it at all times. Thought you'd know that, even if you disagree with it.

 

[SSJ2]

Did Beerus not remark that CSSJB was much stronger than regular Blue?

 

[Pyro]

Broly isn't stronger than Beerus. Goku and Vegeta are individually stronger than Broly was, and they're both weaker than Beerus currently. Moro (with Seven-Three absorbed) was also stated to be stronger than Broly.

And there's this:

Ch. 63, pg. 43.7
Context: Merus is vanishing from existence
Merus: “Goku…should you achieve Ultra Instinct at your current strength, it will be far more stable than ever before. You will not fall to Moro, nor to anyone else, for that matter.”

Ch. 66, pg. 19.3
Context: Goku is stuck in Moro’s grasp
Goku: “Darn… Merus did it, so why can’t I…? I guess I still don’t have enough god power!”

UI Goku shouldn't be the same strength as during the ToP. There's no "beyond limits" UI either, my boy. Goku was initially suppressed against Moro in order to maintain stamina. When he powered up it was referred to as full power, nothing beyond.

 

[SSJ2]

Did Beerus not remark that CSSJB was much stronger than regular Blue?

Also I'm not seeing anywhere in the manga where it's explicitly stated that Blue bursts are using 100% of Blue's power. That's only said about CSSJB.

 

[Future Warrior]

Also I'm not seeing anywhere in the manga where it's explicitly stated that Blue bursts are using 100% of Blue's power. That's only said about CSSJB.

Goku said that Vegeta's bursts allow him to maximize the power of Blue.

 

[SSJ2]

Where is that said?

 

[Future Warrior]

Where is that said?

'

It's basically the same thing.

 

[SSJ2]

The official version is different.

Ch. 22, pg. 25.1-3
Context: Goku and Trunks continue to observe Vegeta fight Goku Black
Trunks: “That’s amazing…! How could he possibly…”
Goku: “He’s storing the power of Blue until the right time and lets it explode when he needs it.”
Kaioshin: “Is that the same thing you did back when fighting Hit?”
Goku: “Yeah, but in my case, I could only go as far as making the switch once while Vegeta is able to repeat it over and over again. Furthermore, his power isn’t decreasing. That just shows how hard he’s trained.”


While this is more vague, there is no direct mention of Vegeta using Blue's 100% power. Furthermore there is also this:



Ch. 27, pg. 15.6-7
Context: Beerus observing Vegeta’s training
Beerus: “What’s up with him? He’s more into this than usual.”
Oracle Fish: “It must be because Son Goku was stronger than him during the battle with Zamasu.”
Beerus: “Ah… It’s a stupid rivalry--not worth my time.”

 

[Pyro]

As soon as Vegeta achieved CSSJB he was stated to be equal to Goku again, but it's not really clarified if that meant by way of having the form that lets him continuously use Blue's full power or by actually being stronger than before.

 

[SSJ2]

But the Oracle Fish backs it up unless we are using a really broad definition for stronger.

 

[Future Warrior]

The fact is that Vegeta didn't increase his general power after that RoSaT trip because once he achieved the mastered state he was comparable to Goku. Maybe his bursts aren't quite equal to CSSJB but he's at least drawing out that power to some extent.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Pyro
That’s never stated KP. The only thing said about the Broly arc is that Goku and Vegeta left it stronger than ever. Don’t think the manga ever brings up Broly’s strength.



Moro is called the toughest - his magic abilities negate even fusion and he would defeat Broly without even touching him most likely. Nothing to do with actual power.



The only thing Goku has improved compared to the ToP is his control over UI - the very quote you posted has Merus saying UI will be more stable than ever, not stronger.



I just noticed Goku does actually say “full power” instead of “beyond full power” lol. But if Goku is still struggling with Omen’s full power doesn’t that mean the only thing he learned was to tap into it at will? There’s exactly 0 statements saying he’s stronger than before from what I’m looking.





@Super Saiyan Potato potato. PSSJB Goku overcame the unability to maintain the full power of the form, Vegeta is maximizing the power in bursts. Could be referring to SSJB’s normal output, but I’m not sure.

“Strong” has a pretty broad definition. Doesn’t the fact that Goku could easily pick Vegeta apart the moment he reverts to SSJG make him the strongest of the two?

 

[SSJ2]

@Super Saiyan Potato potato. PSSJB Goku overcame the unability to maintain the full power of the form, Vegeta is maximizing the power in bursts. Could be referring to SSJB’s normal output, but I’m not sure.

“Strong” has a pretty broad definition. Doesn’t the fact that Goku could easily pick Vegeta apart the moment he reverts to SSJG make him the strongest of the two?

If we want to bend the dialogue then maybe. Whis' statement about being Goku's equal again makes a lot more sense. The Oracle Fish is straight up calling Vegeta inferior, which technically isn't the case if Blue Bursts = CSSJB.

 

[Pyro]

Are you a fucking ass?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365318528245452800

https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonball/comments/lszdrn
It's unlikely Goku was talking about mere durability in Moro's case. Fucking knob. Christ.

Also, look at the quote again, my son. At Goku's "current strength" he should be able to maintain UI longer. If Goku has gotten stronger, why would UI not? Don't be like that chode nugget that thinks pre-RoSaT Super Saiyans have a cap to their strength.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@Pyro nobody said durability in this thread until now, take your pills dude

I suppose just replacing the bit where I wrote “beyond limits” to “full power” will fix this whole UI connudrum?