Cell ( Real Speed ) should still be weaker than Gohan SSJ

[ahill1]

It just seems all around messy. Like I said, I think they are pussyfooting around Goku not being top dog here.

This issue causes massive problems with how the Buu Saga powers line up. It incorporates rage boost issues with 7 years of training issues and so on.

So many issues come about determining the proper gap between Goku and Gohan. The non rage boosted people tend to have a much wider gap than seems necessary while the rage boosted types seem to keep it real tight.

Of course, I've experienced this when I tried to make a gap without rage boost and with it. What is sure is that the rage boost existed. After all, Vegeta, the same guy who outright said that SSJ2 Teen Gohan was weak, can be unstoppable if he ever gets angry. Something that Goku seems to agree with, and even talk about it when he fought Cell.

I agree; I think I'll give Gohan a "boost" due to anger from now. After Vegeta asked what would happen if Gohan get enranged, and Vegeta saw Gohan turn into SSJ2 in budokai.

 

[Ryuzaki]

And then if you get too out of hand with the rage boost you start making Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta stupidly powerful compared to the Super Saiyans during the CG.

It's an interesting issue. And then how the different statements effect things depending on which side of the fence you are on with the rage boost. Does that make Gohan a Ssj2 against Dabura then? A lot of headaches there.

How did Gohan retain Ssj2 form without training? No electricity vs Dabura and so on.

I try to go with the overall feel of the story, it's tough because you really can go either way for a lot of issues.

1)Well, they have trained for 7 years. It would be a bit justified if they were that strong.

2)Apparently, Gohan did trained before the tournament. Though, I wonder how he was able to go SSJ2 at the tournament without any sign of anger. Because he mostly trained with his brother as SSJ. If he trained his SSJ2, he wasn't this short for being able to use it at will. Then again, we're talking about Gohan .

3)Going purely with quotes, Gohan seems to be SSJ2. But without physical signs that he's indeed SSJ2, the debate isn't made any easier.

 

[Lightsworn]

Cell only says speed, so I just go with him increasing his speed only.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

Using physics, if he increases his (punching) speed, his strength would effectively increase as well.

 

[Lightsworn]

The force of his blows would be harder, but his Ki would be the same.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

I know, it's a potential way to explain the difference in performance without him actually increasing power.

He did say he would only go "all out" in speed. He can still increase his power without there being a contradiction, though I don't see the need for him to have increased his power either.

His attacks were completely ineffective, all that changed was that he could hit. If he increased his power, it would have been after his initial attack against Gohan, and even then it's not necessary. Full nelsons gave #16 the power to restrain Cell, Cell restraining Gohan in the same manner should be very easy, even with a large power difference.

Upon further review of the scene, I think I've reconsidered. Still, there is a point where the battle changes. His initial attack was useless and did nothing to Gohan, despite landing multiple solid hits. After that initial scuffle, his hits seem to become more effective.

 

[p123]

Yea it would make sense for him to use more power after his first combo breaker did nothing.

 

[Pointer]

Characters say they raise their power but raise their speed too, it doesn't always have to be stated. The reason Cell brings up speed is because Gohan was too quick for him. No reason to hold back on power.

Explains why he thinks he may have overdone it ( too much power ) when he does land on Gohan.

You know speed and power dont just linked together

Cell has just increased his speed not his power. The power increase was that when he went all off against ssj2 gohan but that was not enough.

 

[p123]

Speed and power are generally linked. Freeza increased his speed with no mention of increasing his power yet its suggested he increased his power as well.

 

[Pointer]

Speed and power are generally linked. Freeza increased his speed with no mention of increasing his power yet its suggested he increased his power as well.

tell this to SSJ grade 3 Trunks

 

[p123]

Generally times of imbalance are clearly stated

 

[Lightsworn]

Cell stating he's only increasing his speed is one of those times it's an imbalance.

 

[p123]

Ok so Cell is imbalanced but Gohan is not?

Gohan 120
Cell Real Speed 120
Cell Power 100
Goku 90

Something like that good?

 

[ahill1]

I totally agree with p123... Cell increased his power too, just like Freeza. Gohan SSJ ~ Perfect Cell ( Real Speed ) > Goku SSJ.

Goku SSJ 100
Cell ( Vs Goku ) 115
Cell ( Real Speed ) 140
Gohan SSJ 150

Looks Perfect, I really like it.

 

[ahill1]

Cell stating he's only increasing his speed is one of those times it's an imbalance.

Not quite... as Mike said Cell only mentioned a speed increase because speed is the main issue here, since Cell cannot hit Gohan.Krillin said on Namek something like not being able to use his true speed because Vegeta would easily detect his Chi, so according to Kuririn, if his speed increases, his Chi also increases.

 

[Ryuzaki]

This is how I see it :

Cell (VS Goku SSJ) = 50-70 %, with his speed held back
Cell (VS Gohan) = Stop holding back his speed 50-70 %
Cell (VS Gohan SSJ2) = Full power and full speed.

 

[Six Trails]

This is how I see it :

Cell (VS Goku SSJ) = 50-70 %, with his speed held back
Cell (VS Gohan) = Stop holding back his speed 50-70 %
Cell (VS Gohan SSJ2) = Full power and full speed.

That'd make Cell quite unbalanced if his full speed is barely above SS Gohan's but his full power was way above SS Gohan's.

 

[Kyo]

I think what he meant was:

Cell (VS Goku): Power 50~70, speed <50~70 (30~50 for example)
Cell (VS Gohan): Power 50~70, speed 50~70
Cell (VS SSJ2 Gohan): Power 100, speed 100

 

[ahill1]

This is how I see it :

Cell (VS Goku SSJ) = 50-70 %, with his speed held back
Cell (VS Gohan) = Stop holding back his speed 50-70 %
Cell (VS Gohan SSJ2) = Full power and full speed.

Yea this also makes sense. I like it.

 

[Ryuzaki]

I think what he meant was:

Cell (VS Goku): Power 50~70, speed <50~70 (30~50 for example)
Cell (VS Gohan): Power 50~70, speed 50~70
Cell (VS SSJ2 Gohan): Power 100, speed 100

That's exactly what I meant.