Chi-Chi (23rd Tenkaichi-Budokai) vs Drum

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah I pulled the argument out of ass, so it has some holes, but to follow Z levels there isn't much alternative than to disregard those power statements as long as you get who's stronger than who right.

Of course, it still doesn't make those Z levels any less ass, since every statement about being multi-fold in Z seems to be true, like Kaioken and Piccolo being stated to power up manyfold after fusing with Nail. Early DB really can't catch a break because of stupid small numbers

I think the reason AT made Goku & Piccolo so low was because he wanted to show the difference between Raditz & them was huge. Putting them at 1,000 could kind-of kill the idea. Like I think the thought was even earth's best is only a few hundreds compared to Raditz being over 1,000.

And probably because AT didn't want to write huge numbers.

 

[Papasmurf]

I think AT's brain got overloaded after he wrote over a million, that's why he can't seem to remember power levels for jack after that. Ginyu got fapped to over 2 million thanks to Toriyama's bad memory, and then he threw out power levels altogether before pulling that 1.3 million statement so far up his ass it was pulled from his throat

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I think AT's brain got overloaded after he wrote over a million, that's why he can't seem to remember power levels for jack after that. Ginyu got fapped to over 2 million thanks to Toriyama's bad memory, and then he threw out power levels altogether before pulling that 1.3 million statement so far up his ass it was pulled from his throat

Ginyu over 2 million?

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah Freeza says he didn't know anyone was above Ginyu until he fights Goku even tho both Piccolo and Vegeta were in the millions

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah Freeza says he didn't know anyone was above Ginyu until he fights Goku even tho both Piccolo and Vegeta were in the millions

oh ye, now i get wot u mean

Honestly though compared to what we got now, there were only a few contradictions in the original series.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah Super could be renamed Dragon Ball Contradictions and it wouldn't make the title less fitting. Shit, GT's consistency was below zero, but even that made Super look like sh1t

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah Super could be renamed Dragon Ball Contradictions and it wouldn't make the title less fitting. Shit, GT's consistency was below zero, but even that made Super look like sh1t

I never thought I'd see the day, but Toei has out-done themselves this time.

 

[Papasmurf]

Toei caught amnesia from Toriyama too. I'm sure glad I don't work for Toei, otherwise I might forget the color of my car like Toriyama and get stuck there

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What I do wonder is, how tf did the 1.3 million like even get into the movie? I mean I understand AT, but did no-one who worked in Toei or post-production team rly ever watch DragonBall or didn't they have the guts to tell him?

This makes me think, that that was an inside joke by Toei and AT.

 

[Papasmurf]

It might as well have been, Toriyama even said I'm embarrassed to have this script be called a screenplay, said it was really a note he threw to the animation team for the movie, then it turned out he ate least wrote a few dozen pages. He also said his old editor that repeatedly made him throw his transcripts in the shredder and made him change villains like 10 times in the Cell arc praised him, but the story was so bad some people say it wasn't even a movie. Plus, shit like a Zarbon tier guy surpassing Piccolo without it being explained, and Toriyama himself even saying he didn't care one bit about consistency so people should please not analyze it for facts

 

[Fantastische Hure]

It might as well have been, Toriyama even said I'm embarrassed to have this script be called a screenplay, said it was really a note he threw to the animation team for the movie, then it turned out he ate least wrote a few dozen pages. He also said his old editor that repeatedly made him throw his transcripts in the shredder and made him change villains like 10 times in the Cell arc praised him, but the story was so bad some people say it wasn't even a movie. Plus, shit like a Zarbon tier guy surpassing Piccolo without it being explained, and Toriyama himself even saying he didn't care one bit about consistency so people should please not analyze it for facts

I do think about whether his editors helped him with consistency back-then or whether AT has just got senile, recently?

 

[Papasmurf]

He got senile around Neko-Majin I think because that was made only a few years after he reread all of the manga to make the Kanzenban covers, yet he forgot what SSJ2 was and drew SSJ1 with lightning. Then come BOG a few years after that and he says he thought SSJ2 had long hair and had no idea what SSJ3 was either, lol 2

 

[Fantastische Hure]

He got senile around Neko-Majin I think because that was made only a few years after he reread all of the manga to make the Kanzenban covers, yet he forgot what SSJ2 was and drew SSJ1 with lightning. Then come BOG a few years after that and he says he thought SSJ2 had long hair and had no idea what SSJ3 was either, lol 2

Classic AT

 

[ahill1]

The 23rd Budokai gaps are just way too huge. Piccolo Junior and Goku were way stronger than Kami, so much so Kami could not even follow his movements. Kami was already way stronger than a power (Goku's tenshinhan's estimations) who was already way stronger than unweighted Goku (vs Ten), who was already way stronger than Tenshinhan, who was already considerably stronger than young Daimao.

The gap between Piccolo Junior and young Daimao was simply astonishing.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

The 23rd Budokai gaps are just way too huge. Piccolo Junior and Goku were way stronger than Kami, so much so Kami could not even follow his movements. Kami was already way stronger than a power (Goku's tenshinhan's estimations) who was already way stronger than unweighted Goku (vs Ten), who was already way stronger than Tenshinhan, who was already considerably stronger than young Daimao.

The gap between Piccolo Junior and young Daimao was simply astonishing.

Goku ~ Piccolo Jr. >>> Kami >/>> Kami (in Shen) >>> Goku (Tenshinhan's expectation) >>> Goku (unweighted; trolling Tenshinhan) >>> Tenshinhan >> Piccolo-Daimao

i probably missed something

& mr. popo i think is lower than kami (in shen), too

 

[Papasmurf]

I think Mr. Popo being below Shen makes sense. That was the first power in a while that dwarfed Piccolo Daimao as opposed to just getting stronger and faster than him, and the only time Kami ever really fought. Popo being below that is

 

[ahill1]

The 23rd Budokai gaps are just way too huge. Piccolo Junior and Goku were way stronger than Kami, so much so Kami could not even follow his movements. Kami was already way stronger than a power (Goku's tenshinhan's estimations) who was already way stronger than unweighted Goku (vs Ten), who was already way stronger than Tenshinhan, who was already considerably stronger than young Daimao.

The gap between Piccolo Junior and young Daimao was simply astonishing.

Goku ~ Piccolo Jr. >>> Kami >/>> Kami (in Shen) >>> Goku (Tenshinhan's expectation) >>> Goku (unweighted; trolling Tenshinhan) >>> Tenshinhan >> Piccolo-Daimao

i probably missed something

& mr. popo i think is lower than kami (in shen), too

Exactly. I think this is what was implied in that tournament. Was Shen stated to be lower than Kami?

In numers:

Young Piccolo Daimao : 10
Weighted Goku (speed) : 10.5
Tenshinhan : 12
Weighted Goku (strength) : 12.5
Unweighted Goku (trolling Ten) : 18
Unweighted Goku (tenshinhan's estimations) : 27
Shen : 40
Piccolo Junior (warming up) : 43
Unweighted Goku (warming up) : 43
Piccolo Junior (full power) : 60
Unweighted Goku (full power) : 60.5

So, Goku and Piccolo Junior are at least 5x stronger than Tenshinhan IMO. Piccolo reborn was 6x stronger than his father, at the very least. The gaps could be even bigger than this.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

The 23rd Budokai gaps are just way too huge. Piccolo Junior and Goku were way stronger than Kami, so much so Kami could not even follow his movements. Kami was already way stronger than a power (Goku's tenshinhan's estimations) who was already way stronger than unweighted Goku (vs Ten), who was already way stronger than Tenshinhan, who was already considerably stronger than young Daimao.

The gap between Piccolo Junior and young Daimao was simply astonishing.

Goku ~ Piccolo Jr. >>> Kami >/>> Kami (in Shen) >>> Goku (Tenshinhan's expectation) >>> Goku (unweighted; trolling Tenshinhan) >>> Tenshinhan >> Piccolo-Daimao

i probably missed something

& mr. popo i think is lower than kami (in shen), too

Exactly. I think this is what was implied in that tournament. Was Shen stated to be lower than Kami?

In numers:

Young Piccolo Daimao : 10
Weighted Goku (speed) : 10.5
Tenshinhan : 12
Weighted Goku (strength) : 12.5
Unweighted Goku (trolling Ten) : 18
Unweighted Goku (tenshinhan's estimations) : 27
Shen : 40
Piccolo Junior (warming up) : 43
Unweighted Goku (warming up) : 43
Piccolo Junior (full power) : 60
Unweighted Goku (full power) : 60.5

So, Goku and Piccolo Junior are at least 5x stronger than Tenshinhan IMO. Piccolo reborn was 6x stronger than his father, at the very least. The gaps could be even bigger than this.

Yeah, he said he couldn't be as high as he normally was in a human (because of the limitations, I guess).

& what Tenshinhan said made it seem even higher than expecting Goku to just be 1.5x stronger, but 1.5x works, too i guess.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

& also kami (in shen) could be way higher, tenshinhan said that level was inconceivable or something

so he couldn't even image some1 being that high (& tenshinhan imagined goku at full-power or be quite high )

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Chi-Chi one shots. I have her similar to Cyborg Tao.