Crocodile’s Marineford retcon?

[Future Warrior]

I didn’t notice anything different about him from Alabasta.

 

[Papasmurf]

Crocodile was weak enough that Luffy nearly defeated him in their second battle and decisively defeated him while heavily bleeding, poisoned, and not even having either of the Gear forms he had against Lucci, back in Alabasta. In Marineford he was able to react to Doflamingo's attack and was treated by him as more or less a potential partner on equal terms, and survived attacks from high Shichibukai tier opponents like that diamond guy and even blocked Mihawk's swing. His power was on another level, just from affirming his resolve or such nonsense.

 

[SSJ2]

Yea just wait until you read part 2. Doflamingo is so much stronger than Alabasta Luffy that it's impossible to describe. And Doflamingo is an ant compared to Mihawk. Crocodile being capable of fighting either of them is proof that he became eons stronger than he was in Alabasta.

 

[Future Warrior]

I'm already up to Punk Hazard, so I don't know too much about Doflamingo. Even if he was extremely powerful I don't think Marinford implies anything to suggest Croc is on his level. I don't remember them really fighting really. They clashed, but Mr. 1 was able to stop Mihawk's attack too, so there's that.

Also, I've already come to believe that Crocodile's confidence during Alabsta was his main downfall against Luffy. If he took way more seriously than he could even defeat Gear 2/3 Luffy from Ennies Lobby for example.

 

[Papasmurf]

Luffy was able to stop Zoro's sword swings with his bare fists in Whiskey Peak, yet used Buggy as a shield against a non-serious Mihawk. The fact that Mr. 1 and Croc are able to stop Mihawk's sword swings when he was arguably more bloodlusted, as well as their other feats in general shows that Oda pulled their new power placements out of his ass. If Mr. 1 could tank Mihawk's sword in Alabasta Zoro would've never been able to cut him.

Crocodile definitely was taking Luffy seriously in their third battle, and yet lost to a poisoned, heavily injured Luffy. There's just no comparison in his Alabasta power and the kind of feats he displayed in Marineford except bullshit power chains in a battle Shonen.

 

[SSJ2]

Doflamingo will be the main villain of the next arc. Once you see how powerful Luffy has become it will be more evident where he stands in comparison to Alabasta Luffy/Crocodile. It was made clear that Crocodile wasn't someone who Doflamingo could easily kill during Marineford.

 

[Future Warrior]

Luffy was able to stop Zoro's sword swings with his bare fists in Whiskey Peak, yet used Buggy as a shield against a non-serious Mihawk. The fact that Mr. 1 and Croc are able to stop Mihawk's sword swings when he was arguably more bloodlusted, as well as their other feats in general shows that Oda pulled their new power placements out of his ass. If Mr. 1 could tank Mihawk's sword in Alabasta Zoro would've never been able to cut him.

I think Mr. 1 says something about getting rusty while in Impel Down, so he might even be weaker. Besides, Mr. 1 tanked the attack that was meant to hurt Luffy. We both know Mihawk could easily cut through steel.

Crocodile definitely was taking Luffy seriously in their third battle, and yet lost to a poisoned, heavily injured Luffy. There's just no comparison in his Alabasta power and the kind of feats he displayed in Marineford except bullshit power chains in a battle Shonen.

Crocodile fought Luffy without using his sand abilities against Luffy (which allowed him to beat Luffy twice beforehand), only deciding to use poison against him. He was not fighting at his full potential in the third fight in the slightest.

 

[SSJ2]

I think it's telling that he got stomped by a heavily poisoned Luffy who could barely move. His abilities have nothing to do with his physical inferiority in power.

 

[Papasmurf]

Mr. 1 did say that, but his feats tell another story. If he was able to be cut down by a heavily injured Zoro who was weaker than he was against the CP9, him being able to resist a fresh Mihawk's sword swing that can level mountains is pure ludicrousness unless there was a retcon. The statement and feats tell a different story, simply because Oda wanted Croc and his right hand man to be more power relevant.

 

[Future Warrior]

Mr. 1 did say that, but his feats tell another story. If he was able to be cut down by a heavily injured Zoro who was weaker than he was against the CP9, him being able to resist a fresh Mihawk's sword swing that can level mountains is pure ludicrousness unless there was a retcon. The statement and feats tell a different story, simply because Oda wanted Croc and his right hand man to be more power relevant.

He could cut mountains but that doesn't mean he intended to use that level of force against Luffy which is the attack that Mr. 1 blocked. Remember that Luffy also got hit by Mihawk's sword a few times and was still standing. Same deal with Crocodile, all we saw was him blocking an attack meant for Luffy.

 

[Papasmurf]

Compared to Baratie Zoro, Alabasta Luffy had only been through a couple of serious battles (Arlong, Wapol) by the time he fought Crocodile and he could hold his own against Croc once he figured out his water weakness. If Crocodile were that unbearably weak on Marineford, he'd have been oneshotted by that diamond dude and I highly doubt Mihawk would be suppressing himself more in a battleground like Marineford than he was when he fought a pup like Baratie arc Zoro. Your argument doesn't stand, because scaling and feats all show otherwise. If Croc remained at the level where he could be defeated by a poisoned, half-dead Luffy, that string attack from Doflamingo would've taken his head off before he could turn to sand, and he definitely wouldn't propose a partnership with someone that weak. Once you get to the end of Dressrosa you'll see just how incomparably stronger Mingo is than any version of Crocodile from before Marineford.

 

[Future Warrior]

Being half-dead doesn't mean anything in One Piece. If anything the Straw Hats get stronger when struck into a corner as shown against the CP9 in Ennies Lobby.

I get what your saying and it's valid but I think your looking into the fights too much at face value. To mean it seemed like Croc was tired of this rookie Luffy constantly coming back from the dead and simply decided to poison his ass instead instead of using the rest of his repertoire of abilities due to being an idiot. I'll admit that Luffy punching through the Desert Spada was some high class bullshit but other than that it just seemed like Croc was too cocky and got caught by the Gomu Gomu no Gatling gun which ended him. He did withstand that attack from that Diamond guy but you can't use that and then ignore how the Straw Hats constantly recover from injuries that should really take them out of the fight. This man Zoro during Thriller Bark used up almost all of his power against that Giant and was still standing even after also adding in all the damage that Luffy has gotten throughout that fight. Like I said, Luffy was already withstanding a bunch of attacks from Mihawk so I don't see a problem with Mr. 1 blocking those same attacks.

 

[Papasmurf]

Well, if Organic Taopaipai showed up in the 22nd and was implied to be relevant to Match Level Galu or initial Tenshithands without any feasible explanation (despite getting stomped by Galu 3 years earlier) I'd have the same reaction. Crocodile had every advantage in the book aside from being unable to pass through Luffy's fists and feet, what with Luffy being poisoned and bleeding heavily and he still lost to Luffy's final attack. The same attack which would do nothing to even the likes of Rob Lucci and would only work on Enel because of fruit power superiority. Literally every relevant player in Marineford was above Enel (provided they could use Haki) and Crocodile was treated like him insulting Whitebeard and calling him weak wasn't hilariously ironic, Doflamingo respected his power and so forth. I fail to see how that isn't a retcon.

 

[Future Warrior]

Alright fair enough. I get your argument.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Crocodile was able to temporarily knock out one of the Awakened Zoan wardens in Impel Down with a pretty basic technique despite them not being people Gear 2nd Luffy could oneshot and his Desert La Spada was able to cut through Akainu, compared to Base Alabasta Luffy being able to punch through his Desert La Spada, as well as being able to endure an attack from Jozu meant to KO him. That alone shows he's vastly above his Alabasta self. There's also him having fought Mihawk and Akainu and escaped without significant injuries, and it'd be a stretch to assume it was purely through his DF when these are skilled Haki users and far from incompetent enough to let him go free.

As for the whole comparison of Crocodile's clash with Doflamingo to Mr. 1 blocking Mihawk's strike, I wouldn't say it's an accurate equivalence. Mr. 1's manoeuvre wasn't something Mihawk anticipated, being more comparable to Kami blocking Piccolo's punch for Galu at the 23rd TB. Meanwhile, there was no surprise when Croc and Doffy clashed and the clash itself had enough effort from both to knock back many fodder soldiers.

 

[Future Warrior]

Guys Crocodile was always this strong. He's the strongest character that Luffy beat pre-timeskip. He just got lucky and beat him.

Crocodile will be one of the strongest post-ts for sure.

 

[SSJ2]

Crocodile was strong enough to challenge Whitebeard at some point. There's no way in hell that someone who got stomped by Alabasta Luffy could even make it to WB's ship. WB's affiliate crews are exponentially stronger than that, let alone his own captains.

 

[Future Warrior]

Stomped? Way to oversimplify the fight.

 

[SSJ2]

He was physically beaten by a guy who was half dead and critically poisoned.

 

[Future Warrior]

And it would have happened a third time too if it wasn't for the antidote.