DB

[Six Trails]

I don't know, I don't think Tao was that much weaker than Goku.

I don't recall, was Chaozu's Dodonpa a stronger version compared to Taopaipai's?

I will lower Krillin.

Yes, I live in New York.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I don't know, I don't think Tao was that much weaker than Goku.

I don't recall, was Chaozu's Dodonpa a stronger version compared to Taopaipai's?

I will lower Krillin.

Yes, I live in New York.

I think he can be quite a bit lower than Goku, but still in the 80% range, in-order for his attacks to hurt Goku.

Yeah, I think that was implied. Like Chaozu was spamming a lot of Dodon-Pas once, and then he charged one for a long time, and they said it could kill Kuririn, I think.

That's kewl.

 

[Six Trails]

What about Goku ~ Dodonpa? Could that work? It doesn't have to be weaker than him, does it?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

What about Goku ~ Dodonpa? Could that work? It doesn't have to be weaker than him, does it?

Well, I think for Goku to just block it on his own, without any kind-of Kiai or attack by himself, makes it weaker than Goku. But yeah it could also be equal (if that's what you mean) to him, and that might be able to work.

 

[Six Trails]

Okay, I lowered Taopaipai and his Dodonpa.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I think that's kewl.

Also don't you think the difference between Young, and Old Piccolo is really not that great, for him to be beyond comparison?

And why you think Yamcha is weaker than Cyborg Tao?

Also the Oorin-Temple Bullies, do you think they could be higher than the Goku, Kuririn fought? Since Kuririn thought they couldn't win against them, before he saw his powered-up power.

But it could also be that Kuririn was just really scared of them, because of the past, like loss of Yuuki or whatever that is.

 

[Six Trails]

Oops, Cyborg Taopaipai was a mistake. I originally had all my 23rd TB fighters higher and forgot to lower him. Fixed.

My Daimao Old to Young gap is tight, I agree...but it's mainly because I liked how my original 23rd numbers came out. So...I guess I could multiply everyone from initial Young and up by like 2x or something and still come out with neat gaps. I'll try it out.

 

[Six Trails]

How does it look now?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah, I think that looks better to me.

 

[ahill1]

Why is Roshi ( Initial ) only 1.1x stronger than Yamcha ? He was effortlessly dodging Yamcha's assault, without even break a sweat... I think this implies more than 1.1x gap.

 

[Six Trails]

Roshi noted that Yamcha wastes so much excess movement. I'll raise him a little bit though.

 

[p123]

Yea Yamcha being 83% of Jackie seems like a major, major mistake to me. This fight mirrors Goku vs Ginyu Force more so than almost any other fight.

Even if accounting for Yamcha's excessive movement, it doesn't change the fact that Yamcha is ridiculously slower than Jackie. Even if Jackie is able to pick up on the tells of Yamcha's attacks, which is what excessive movement would effect, the way Jackie gets out of the way with zero effort like that entails a 1.5x gap.

There's really no getting around it.

Excessive movement allows Jackie to pick up on his attacks quicker and it would tire Yamcha out easier, it doesn't make Yamcha somehow slower.

And as we can see by the Wolf Fang Fist, the excessive movement didn't mean much there because Yamcha came with much more raw power and speed.

 

[ahill1]

Agreed with Super Saiyan God; I'd go with Jackie Chun ( Initial ) being 1.5x stronger than Yamcha as well... 1.2x seems kinda of low.

 

[SSJ2]

Your list is looking good.

What do you think of their being two types of zenkais?

1. Fighting zenkai, which would be like the gain you gave Goku after the 21st. It's a small but noticeable boost.
2. Near death zenkai, the true zenkai which can massively increase your power.

 

[Six Trails]

I can agree with that.

Personally, I wouldn't give Goku zenkais at all if it weren't for the whole post-22nd TB mess with the Goku > Mutaito > Young Roshi > 22nd Goku implications, but since I give him one there to fit, I feel obliged to give him zenkais any time he recovers from near death / being severely beat up.

 

[p123]

Yea the Mutaito stuff does seem to imply zenkais don't it?

 

[ahill1]

Only if you think it's implied that Mutaito/Roshi young > Goku [22nd Budokai].

 

[p123]

Is there any other way? Roshi isn't that inferior to Goku.

 

[ahill1]

Is there any other way? Roshi isn't that inferior to Goku.

I think he is... Roshi is even weaker than Goku's Match Level.

 

[p123]

Why do you think Roshi is weaker than Match Level Goku?