Demon King Piccolo Saga Power Levels

[p123]

I don't think Goku's as fucked up as he is fatigued. He's not complaining about how strong Tambourine is, he's not complaining about how hurt he is, he's complaining about being tired.

In terms of being anywhere near his previous ability. Tambourine is jakked up, he took a real beating. If you think Tambourine really hurt Goku more with that one lazy kick than Goku did with his combo, then what kind of gap do you need to show that?

 

[ahill1]

Mutaito > Prime Roshi/Prime Tsuru > Current Roshi

I agree, that's pretty much what I see his statement meaning. I always thought arguing prime Roshi being above 22nd Budokai Goku based on that statement was kind of jumping to conclusions. Heck, looking at Herms' translations alone, even prime Roshi being above his 22nd Budokai self isn't that apparent, that set in stone. Viz is more straightforward on that, in which is stated "even me in the young days and Tsuru were no match", with in this case the "even" serving as the game changer to conclude prime Roshi > 22nd Budokai Roshi.

 

[p123]

Look up what they have in the Japanese anime. I'm interested in their take. Should be around episode 103 or something.

Right now I'm going to have to adjust my numbers to this...

Mutaito 280
Goku 240
Piccolo 225
Roshi/Shen 220
Goku 22nd 200


I think I'll have to go with that for now...

 

[ahill1]

Spoiler

Man, does those quotes even imply Young Roshi is above 22nd Budokai Roshi? Reading them, it doesn't seem Roshi was making a bigger deal out of his younger self being defeated, he was more like narrating what happened.

 

[p123]

Damn, so he makes no commentary at all about his "prime" power then?

 

[ahill1]

No, just that he fought him when young.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Where do you have 23rd Goku (Expected FP)?

 

[p123]

No one makes any expectations of Goku. What are you referring to?

Interesting. I still will give Prime Roshi and Shen the benefit of the doubt, but you guys have successfully convinced me to lower them and Mutatio. Thanks.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Tenshinhan says Goku was nowhere near FP after their fight, but is still dumbfounded by Kami and Piccolo, going as far as saying it's beyond any conceivable level.

FP Goku/Piccolo >>> Shen >> Expected Goku >> Unweighted Goku

I thought you'd know about that P. It's something a lot of people use to make the Kami/Kid Goku gap.

 

[p123]

Shit, I probably came up with it. Half of the theories we throw around are shit I threw at the wall and a lot of it stuck.

Shen/Piccolo >> Unweighted Goku v Tien

That's a given.

But this is what I countered Vic with the other week.

Nowhere is it suggested that Goku doesn't have a chance anymore. There's no determination on Goku's full power here, Tien is just saying the power he used to whoop his butt is just for starters.

 

[ahill1]

I don't think Tenshinhan is necessarily thinking of a concrete level for Goku, just that Goku's true ability is way more amazing than the one displayed. He said Goku didn't even see the need of using a KMHMH, so he has likely concluded from Goku's actions and overall demeanor that his true ability lies beyond the one shown in their fight, but that the ceiling for such strength is still uncertain.

 

[p123]

Exactly

 

[ahill1]

Not saying it's wrong, but what is your reasoning for Shen >>> unweighted Goku (vs Tenshinhan)?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

@Withheld

Where are you getting this from? Show me some quotes stating Initial Piccolo Jr > Piccolo Daimao.

That's the general feeling i get. Before the fights, it is already stated that he's a guy with more power than the original
Piccolo and this is not contradicted during his fight against Krillin.

 

[p123]

So Piccolos powering up is at a speed higher than initial Tien vs Goku?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Shit, I probably came up with it. Half of the theories we throw around are shit I threw at the wall and a lot of it stuck.

Shen/Piccolo >> Unweighted Goku v Tien

That's a given.

But this is what I countered Vic with the other week.

Nowhere is it suggested that Goku doesn't have a chance anymore. There's no determination on Goku's full power here, Tien is just saying the power he used to whoop his butt is just for starters.

Pay attention at how Tenshinhan reacts though. Whensays Goku didn't even go FP, he isn't even nervous. He knows he can catch up to him later. When he sees Piccolo and Kami, he shits a brick and says it's far being any conceivable level. He says it like they're on a league of their own, he's far more astonished by their power than by the idea of Goku having more power.

 

[p123]

Yet Tien isn't surprised that Goku surpasses that level.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

So Piccolos powering up is at a speed higher than initial Tien vs Goku?

Are these gaps good enough for you?

Young Piccolo- 95
Water Goku- 100
Weighted Goku- 105
True Speed Tenshinhan- 120
Krillin- 95
Yamcha- 90
Initial Piccolo Jr- 110
Initial Shen- 120

 

[p123]

Yamcha and Krillen consider Weighted Goku's speed to be pretty amazing.

I think Piccolo's speed can't be faster than that. Perhaps slower.

Initial Shen and Initial Piccolo are definitely slower than Initial Goku v Tien.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yet Tien isn't surprised that Goku surpasses that level.

Because Piccolo told him so when he said Goku was the only obstacle on his plan. Before Piccolo's statement, Tenshinhan admited ganging up on Piccolo would be no good, implying he thinks Piccolo is far stronger than any Z Fighter.