Demon King Piccolo Saga Power Levels

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But if Goku is about as strong as someone could get, then no one can be stronger than him by a considerable amount. Piccolo's statement shows unsureness about Goku being or not the strongest someone could get. 1.25x is a huge gap and Piccolo would instantly know Goku is not close to the human limit.

I think the chains goes like this:
Goku ~ Mutaito >= Initial Piccolo >/>> Young Roshi/Tsuru >/>= 22nd Goku

Dunno about the gaps though. Probably this:
Goku/Mutaito: 100
Piccolo Daimao: 96
Young Roshi/Tsuru: 80~83
22nd Goku: 75

 

[p123]

Chapter: 135, P6.1
Kame-sennin: “Despite the cute name, [Piccolo] was an outrageously fearsome person…His strength was extremely overwhelming…[ ] He was an opponent we were utterly unable to oppose; not only my younger self or Tsuru-sennin, but even our master, Mutaito.


You think 22nd Budokai Goku can hold his own with Prime Roshi?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yes, but barely. Like, why not? Roshi doesn't imply he was stronger by a huge amount here.

 

[p123]

I agree, he doesn't necessarily say he is stronger at all. I didn't know the line was written like that. However, I have one more question.

If someone said "Powers a little over a thousand", what range would you give that?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, i thought it was a bit different. Like, a bit more clear about Roshi being > Goku.

A little over a thousand... That's like a 1,080-1,125 range. Perhaps a 1,150 if we are pushing it.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta regards Gohan's enraged power (1,307) and Piccolo's Makankosappo (1,330) as powers "barely over a thousand" is what I think P is getting at.

 

[p123]

Good ahill.

So Vegeta thinks 1,307 and 1,330 are only a little over a thousand... What do you think about that GS?

With Roshi, I don't know. If the old version of him can almost keep up with Goku, shouldn't his prime version be decently stronger?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

[color=#00080]
Chapter: 204 (DBZ 10), P10.1
Context: Vegeta talking about Raditz losing to Goku and co.
Vegeta: “"Geez, what a pitiful guy... To be killed by guys with battle powers slightly over 1,000 at most...”[/color]

Raditz's statement seems quite odd. He is impressed Raditz was beaten by such powers, and Raditz has a BP not much higher than 1,200 if at all.

 

[p123]

Perhaps it only seems odd because it clashes with your interpretation.

 

[Castiel]

Roshi's statemnet @fatigued goku goes uncontradicted in the manga, he gets rekt without really putting up a fight.. i thougth i posted this already but im really drunk lmao

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Nah, it definitely implies 1,330 and 1,307 are numbers not much above 1,000; just like 3,000 is not far from 2,400. Though it's implying Raditz should be able to take two powers higher than his own... Though this statement was before Raditz's BP was released, so perhaps it's all good.

All in all, you're right. Mutaito can be that much stronger than Goku. As long as they're on the same tier it's all good. If Goku is a 100, Mutaito can be anywhere between 96 and 133 IMO.

 

[p123]

(Goku v Tambourine Round 1) vs (Goku vs Tambourine Round 2)

Who gets beat up worse?

@GS

I'm not saying you don't have a point. You definitely do, but I think the story doesn't necessary go about things that strictly. Same for the whole "less than half power" meaning it has to be 40% because he didn't say 1/3 and didn't say half...

I think there's a little leeway.

But I think you've made me reconsider my position on Mutaito a bit more...

It also doesn't seem that Prime Roshi has to be stronger than Goku 22nd Budokai at all. I'm going to check the anime quotes to get a better feeling.

Hell, what makes this worse, there probably isn't even a zenkai at all... Which makes the whole situation much more jumbled up... I think the zenkai helps us here honestly, but then, what about the zenkai for Goku vs Mr. Popo? If you give him one for Tambourine, you gotta give him one for Piccolo.

Decisions, decisions.

I've already committed to minor zenkais with Post 21st Budokai and Post Muscle Tower, so it's too late for me... Get out while you still can! Lol

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'll read the fights and give you a response.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm not saying i don't have a point, since i've admited it can go either way. Seems odd for Mutaito to be that stronger than Goku and don't like it, but it's not necessarily wrong. Just plausible.

On the Young Roshi thing, i did think Roshi was stronger until i saw the statement as well. I thought it was something like "Not even my younger self, nor my master Mutaito" or some shit like that. I think they are equals, given it would be pointless to bring up someone weaker than Goku.

Kinda nitpicking here, but i don't think that was a Zenkai. More like just fighting and getting stronger, like an all out training.

As for Goku vs Tambourine, the round 1 definitely looks worse. Tambourine two shoted Goku and he didn't even try. On round 2 Tambourine recovered pretty quick from several blows and Goku needed a Kamehameha to kill him.

 

[p123]

I disagree, Goku looks far less helpless than Tambourine looked. I think if Goku was on the ground, he could have fought decently against Tambourine whereas Tambourine had no chance. Goku takes Tambourines' kick rather decently and the reason he gets knocked out is because Tambourine knocks him out with the Dragonball.

If there is no zenkai, you'd got quite the jumbled mess. Let me see your numbers here.

All Roshi really says in his statement is....

Mutaito > Prime Roshi/Prime Tsuru > Current Roshi

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don't think so. Goku was pretty wrecked from Tambourine's quick, struggling to get on his feet and with his mouth bleading. Tambourine instantly got back on his feet after receiving a combo from Goku.

My numbers for what? Goku/Mutaito/Roshi?

 

[p123]

What fight were you reading?

Goku takes a good stiff shot, but he's not getting up because of how fatigued he is. He's more pissed about being tired than being hurt.

Tambourine is getting his ass kicked, he goes splat on the floor, it takes him several panels to get up. Do you just convince yourself you are reading something else?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

So does Goku, who only got on his feet because he had to jump to dodge Tambourine's blast.

Tambourine didn't look nearly as demolished from the beating and still had strength to fire a mouth blast and fly away.

 

[p123]

Look at Tambourine's expressions. His eyes are popping out of his head. He's clearly in way more pain that Goku. He's holding his arm, gasping for air, he's in critical condition. He has enough power to unleash his ultimate attack and that's about it, he's fucked up badly man.

Goku looks like he got outmatched, hit solidly and is recovering from his previous fights energy expenditure. He gets surprise KO'd. If Tambourine vs Goku happened on the ground, Goku would have survived longer than Tambourine did against Goku in their second round in my opinion.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He isn't bleeding or marked like Goku was after receiving multiple hits though. And about what i said on Goku jumping to dodge Tambourine's blast, i was mistaken. Goku didn't even reacted to the blast. He's way more fucked up by one hit than Tambourine was by multiples.

Who said he only had power to fire his attack? He isn't out of breath and clearly still has energy to rapidly fly away high enough to a point Goku can't catch him with a jump.