Did Future Trunks get stronger during the Android Saga?

[GokhanDBZfan]

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[Papasmurf]

Not a solid defense when Trunks also says when he meets Goku that even 1-on-1 he could only barely get away and that there were two of them. Your context is bunk.

 

[Papasmurf]

I just try to go based off Trunks' actions. He tells Goku that he'll return to see them if he's alive, then later tells us he was hoping to either watch Goku exploit the Androids or bring him back to the future to fight. Trunks getting into another fight with the Androids just seems too dumb for him to even consider. He even admitted how lucky he was to survive the battle against the Androids.

Also, before they go to find Gero's lab, he says he couldn't do shit to the Androids as a Super Saiyan....only for him to say he put up a good fight a few chapters later. Most of what he says stops making sense when you think about it.

I mean his attitude on his performance against the cyborgs gets flip-flopped, but he does say twice in a row that the future cyborgs weren't that strong compared to the present ones that are much, much stronger. Seems to be the newly established norm that the future cyborgs were stronger than him, but far below the present ones and incapable of raping him nearly as hard. Plus #18 actually says she's completely sick of him when she tries to blast him, and like I said, with that and #17's toy comment, I just can't rationalize there only being one fight.

Plus, if you consider the fact that there were only a few tens of thousands of humans in the future, Trunks showing up to help them get away makes sense.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

That statement from Trunks doesn't real mean anything, other than one Android alone being already much stronger him.

 

[Papasmurf]

That statement from Trunks doesn't real mean anything, other than one Android alone being already much stronger him.

I think this is basically your attitude towards any evidence contrary to your viewpoint. Anyway, to get started on that other edit you made...

Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P1.1-2
Kame-sennin: “Aim even higher than Super Saiyan, you say? Is that possible…?!”
Goku: “I dunno…But it looks like I definitely won’t be able to beat these opponents without doing at least that…I’ll train for about 1 year, and if it’s no good, I’ll give up.”

Goku states that unless he finds a way to surpass a Super Saiyan in the RoSaT, it won't do him any good.Why wouldn't 1 year of training do him any good, if training for a couple of years powered him up a lot?
If he can get a heck of a lot stronger sparring on Earth for years, training in the RoSaT for one year wouldn't be fruitless to him EVEN if he doesn't find a way to go beyond Super Saiyan, which is the opposite of what he says.

No one's arguing he became "a heck of a lot stronger." But certainly enough for him to think himself prepared for the fantastic threats to arrive in 3 years, otherwise he wouldn't be composed prior to fighting them. 1 year of training he says wouldn't do him any good because he's heard about Cell's complete form containing powers beyond imagination, and Piccolo and the others were fearing Cell was getting stronger by the day. Not to mention, 1 year outside is still 1/3rd of what he had to train prior to the arc, yet he believes he'll be able to make enough gains to perhaps surpass Super Saiyan in a year. Had the last 3 years been nearly fruitless, he wouldn't even consider the prospect of training for a year worthwhile.

Furthermore, since the Rosat was introduced as a new, more effective method to train, why wouldn't there be a statement about Goku's training on Earth being basically ineffectual until now be stated now that they were resorting to its use? It sounds like you're taking things out of context. Vegeta was quick to remark when he thought he hit his limit against Freeza, and Goku has said things about his limit several times too.

Of course, that's because they found a way to go beyond Super Saiyan.The second time Vegeta and Trunks went in, they replicated Goku and Gohan's FPSSJ training.

Baseless conjecture when Vegeta doesn't give off the feeling of hiding something much more like Trunks was while hiding his SSJg3 (basically meaning he never transformed like Trunks), yet he was slightly stronger than him; not to mention that attaining a new form causing increases in the old form isn't stated at all.

Tenshinhan acts like it's the first time he saw a Super Saiyan, so their gasps on Goku's strength don't mean anything, especially when they probably have a hard time even grasping that kind of power.

Except that Tenshinhan wasn't seeing a Super Saiyan for the first time, he's encountered two and even remembers Trunks' fight with Freeza vividly. His memory wasn't failing him at all.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I think Tien's quote was more along the lines of amazement, if anything. Goku just happened to be even more powerful than the last time he saw him.

 

[Papasmurf]

"Grasping that level of power is hard for them" seems pretty bull as well when Kuririn made accurate assessments of Cell hiding a lot of his power after being lightly kicked by him, and he knew straight away that Vegeta surpassed Semi and that Goku was beyond all of them in the Cell Game. Pretty much grasping at straws if you ask me. Hell, Kuririn was present and he still thought that #19 lived up to his hype and that Goku was truly amazing despite being way below his healthy full power. Had he not improved, then... well, your argument is probably bunk already.

 

[ahill1]

Trunks (Mecha saga) was finger tooled by Mecha saga Goku, while Androids saga Trunks was lumped together with Vegeta and a 3 years trained Goku.

Not to mention before the Mecha saga he said the gap between him and the Androids was huge, while he said in the Androids saga he could fight them fairly well.

So yeah, Trunks got way stronger IMO.

 

[Papasmurf]

Pretty much what ahill said, but because Goku says he can't beat his foes without doing what Vegeta's attempting and surpass Super Saiyan that other guy thinks all the training Goku did was meaningless k

 

[sei'taer]

The feats override Tienshinhans opinion on the matter. Trunks was knocked out in the same manner as Piccolo, whereas Vegeta -despite suffering the same amount of damage that Trunks did, despite having a broken arm and battled Android 18 for a prolonged period of time, was able to get back up and keep fighting.

Trunks is nowhere near Goku and Vegeta.

Vegeta was the strongest of the 3 at that point. Tenshinhan's comment doesn't mean the 3 are equal, just that they're not that much difference in power that having all 3 would make any difference vs the androids.

Trunks doesn't have to be equal to goku and vegeta for this line of reasoning to work he just has to be stronger than his pre- 3 year training self.

SSJ vegeta > SSJ goku > SSJ trunks >>>> SSJ goku (yardat) ~ SSJ trunks (mecha furiza)

 

[ahill1]

Papasmurf, do you think sick Goku > Mecha saga Goku?

 

[Papasmurf]

Sick Goku was stronger when he was fighting at close to full power before he shot that Kamehameha and his heart's condition got even worse imo

 

[ahill1]

But later Piccolo said Goku's power should be way more stupendous than that or something like that.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

That just means he's a lot stronger without being hampered by the heart virus.

I see it like this: Goku>Goku fighting #19>Yardrat Goku

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah, what EV said. Goku's only slightly weaker than Vegeta, so had he been healthy he'd have beaten the shit out of even post-absorption #19 just like Vegeta

 

[ahill1]

I know it. But when you said Goku was fighting close to full power, even so we know healthy Goku >>> sick Goku.

 

[Papasmurf]

What I meant by that was that Piccolo said he was already fighting at close to his full power then, so I meant his full power while sick.

 

[ahill1]

I think Piccolo's line is a bit weird, I mean, how is Goku putting out close to his full power if he should be way more powerful than that? Maybe he was using full effort, but the size of his ki should be greater?

 

[Papasmurf]

He doesn't say Goku is weaker than the ki he's giving out though, only that he looks pathetic despite fighting near his full power. Then he was told #19 might have absorbed Goku's ki or some shit, so maybe he can tell Goku's trying really hard by looking, despite his shitty ki.

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, that's what I think. Goku was using full effort, but his chi should be way greater than that.