Dragon Ball Arc Rating/Review

[Fantastische Hure]

How did the Cell Arc get the second worst score? Sheesh.

I don't know either. Kanzenshuu's hipster opinion of Boo Saga > Cell Saga somehow seems to have caught-on with people.

 

[Flame]

How did the Cell Arc get the second worst score? Sheesh.

I don't know either. Kanzenshuu's hipster opinion of Boo Saga > Cell Saga somehow seems to have caught-on with people.

That's jacked up. Cell Arc>Frieza Arc>Saiyan Arc>=Buu Arc is what it should be.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

How did the Cell Arc get the second worst score? Sheesh.

I don't know either. Kanzenshuu's hipster opinion of Boo Saga > Cell Saga somehow seems to have caught-on with people.

That's jacked up. Cell Arc>Frieza Arc>Saiyan Arc>=Buu Arc is what it should be.

I don't know between Freeza Saga and Cell Saga right-now, but Boo Saga should definitely be the lowest in my opinion. I consider the "Saiyan Saga" part of the Freeza Saga, since that's all one grand story-line.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

How did the Cell Arc get the second worst score? Sheesh.

To me, it's because of the Android arc. It's just unacceptable for a robots to surpass SSjin Goku and Freeza.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

How did the Cell Arc get the second worst score? Sheesh.

Reading my review of it should give you a good idea why.

 

[freezamite]

How did the Cell Arc get the second worst score? Sheesh.

To me, it's because of the Android arc. It's just unacceptable for a robots to surpass SSjin Goku and Freeza.

An alien in the style of Toei's movies would've been even worse. And I don't think there's a single robot in the series that surpassed a trained SSJ and/or Freezer...

Future Vegeta never became a SSJ (that's heavily implied in the Cell saga already, and confirmed through this), so future Trunks was like present Gohan: very strong for his age -thanks to his father being very strong- but not a SSJ since birth.

Prove it.

It's fairly easy to prove. Future Vegeta was killed by androids much weaker than the ones in our timeline, which wouldn't have been possible with him being a SSJ much stronger than future Trunks was when he was able to "evenly fight them".
Unlike the sons of a SSJ, Trunks wasn't a naturally born SSJ and he still had to learn to turn into a SSJ the hard way.

And even if it's not a fact, his explanation of how he turned into a SSJ involves Goku -and probably Trunks as well-, so without Trunks and with Goku already dead because of the illness I don't think Vegeta could've ever turned into a SSJ.

Never stated or proven, so just an assumption. By that logic, Bra should have some Freeza tier natural strength and be able to go SSJ easily, yet from what we've seen of her at the end of the manga, that clearly isn't the case.

It's something that has happened a lot of times.
The SSJ kids, Cell inheriting all those techniques because of its genes (it's what Cell actually said), Piccolo also inherited all the knowledge of King Piccolo (although more than a son he was at first a reincarnation).
I'm not saying it's an established rule that applies to everything but Toriyama applied this kind of logic a lot when needed.

Regarding Bra's power, besides Freezer being much above any kid level FPSSJ we saw in the series, she would've been even weaker than Goten and Trunks in the Boo saga. Furthermore, Gohan didn't know Goten could turn into a SSJ, so it's implied is not something they can do since they're born, but something they naturally learn once they've grown a bit already.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

It's something that has happened a lot of times.
The SSJ kids, Cell inheriting all those techniques because of its genes (it's what Cell actually said), Piccolo also inherited all the knowledge of King Piccolo (although more than a son he was at first a reincarnation).
I'm not saying it's an established rule that applies to everything but Toriyama applied this kind of logic a lot when needed.[/quote]Cell is a mixture of the Cells of multiple fighters designed to create the perfect being, thereby being an anomaly. As you said, Piccolo is a reincarnation of Daimao, making the SSJ Kids the only "example". There's no rule if the multiple examples needed for it have alternate explanations

Regarding Bra's power, besides Freezer being much above any kid level FPSSJ we saw in the series

 

[freezamite]

It's something that has happened a lot of times.
The SSJ kids, Cell inheriting all those techniques because of its genes (it's what Cell actually said), Piccolo also inherited all the knowledge of King Piccolo (although more than a son he was at first a reincarnation).
I'm not saying it's an established rule that applies to everything but Toriyama applied this kind of logic a lot when needed.

Cell is a mixture of the Cells of multiple fighters designed to create the perfect being, thereby being an anomaly. As you said, Piccolo is a reincarnation of Daimao, making the SSJ Kids the only "example". There's no rule if the multiple examples needed for it have alternate explanations

Regarding Bra's power, besides Freezer being much above any kid level FPSSJ we saw in the series

Look, everytime we discuss this it's the same. You start laughting, I start demonstrating what I'm saying, you start to say that Toriyama wasn't a good writter and that he didn't know what he was doing, I tell you that Toriyama surely knew what he was drawing much better than you, then you'll start insulting and since you're a mod I'll be banned for not acknowledging your authority above Toriyama's so I won't even bother discussing. Were the kids much below Goku and Vegeta FP SSJ? Well then, bad luck, they were below Freezer as well.

But the thing is, Cell inheriting the KameHame through Goku's genes uses the same logic than the kids inheriting the SSJ. It doesn't mater if it's a mixture of Cells or whatever, it's the same logic than with the Kids. The father knew something when the kids were conceived -> the kids inherited this knowledge.
And even if Piccolo was originally a reincarnation of the devil, this was latter retconned as him being a Namekian in the same way him being a demon was also retconned for him being an evil Namekian.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Look, everytime we discuss this it's the same. You start laughting, I start demonstrating what I'm saying, you start to say that Toriyama wasn't a good writter and that he didn't know what he was doing, I tell you that Toriyama surely knew what he was drawing much better than you, then you'll start insulting and since you're a mod I'll be banned for not acknowledging your authority above Toriyama's so I won't even bother discussing. Were the kids much below Goku and Vegeta FP SSJ? Well then, bad luck, they were below Freezer as well.

Implying Toriyama would even think Freeza was above SSJ Goku/Vegeta before FnF, despite making it clear he didn't think so, or that your opinion is as valid as his.

But the thing is, Cell inheriting the KameHame through Goku's genes uses the same logic than the kids inheriting the SSJ. It doesn't mater if it's a mixture of Cells or whatever, it's the same logic than with the Kids. The father knew something when the kids were conceived -> the kids inherited this knowledge.
And even if Piccolo was originally a reincarnation of the devil, this was latter retconned as him being a Namekian in the same way him being a demon was also retconned for him being an evil Namekian.

The Kamehameha can be copied by anyone with reasonable talent, as shown by Goku learning a basic one in mere seconds, whilst Cell had data on it's advancement up until the Saiyan Arc. The Kids weren't given data by a computer or genetically altered to boost their power.
Piccolo's origins being retconned means nothing when the reason of it being brought up was that he was a reincarnation of Piccolo Daimao, even referring to himself as Piccolo Daimao up until the end of the Saiyan Arc. His origins are irrelevant to this argument.

---

So, anyone still wanting to review the GT or Super Arcs?

 

[freezamite]

Implying Toriyama would even think Freeza was above SSJ Goku/Vegeta before FnF, despite making it clear he didn't think so, or that your opinion is as valid as his.

I'm not saying Freezer was above SSJ Goku or Vegeta prior to FnF, because in fact SSJ Goku and Vegeta are different levels of power by themselves (as it's proved by the fact that SSJ2 Vegeta surpassed SSJ3 Goku from BoG onward) and it's impossible to determine where are their limits (unlike the base state ones, the SSJ limits weren't defined as well).
The thing is that the kids were not adult FP SSJ, they had less strength, and Freezer was comfortably over their level. What Toriyama did state is that SSJ Goku in Namek only had a fraction of Freezer's power, if that's what you're using to put Freezer below the kids.

The Kamehameha can be copied by anyone with reasonable talent, as shown by Goku learning a basic one in mere seconds, whilst Cell had data on it's advancement up until the Saiyan Arc. The Kids weren't given data by a computer or genetically altered to boost their power.
Piccolo's origins being retconned means nothing when the reason of it being brought up was that he was a reincarnation of Piccolo Daimao, even referring to himself as Piccolo Daimao up until the end of the Saiyan Arc. His origins are irrelevant to this argument.

---

---

But Cell never spoke about him "having learned Goku's techniques through Videos", but him inheriting them because of Goku's Cells. He even speculated about the possibility of being able to use the Genkidama because of it.
His kamehame against piccolo was weak because Goku's Cells were from when he fought against the Saiyans, so yes, it's a clear example of one inheriting something learned by his "fathers".

In the same way I accept Piccolo being an exception because he was technically a reincarnation when he inherited his father's knowledge, you should admit that Cell inherited all his techniques from his Cells. There could be explanations more compatible with our knowledge on how evolution and inheritance works, but it is what it is.

 

[Flame]

Are we going to do Super and GT?

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I'm open or both.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Since we've got some willing participants, we'll continue starting with GT, so now it's the Ultimate Dragon Balls Arc.

What criticism hasn't been said about this arc before? The whole quest for the Dragon Balls was just an unoriginal rehash of the series' very first story arc, with episodes such as Zunama just playing the same role Oolong did in his introduction and Pilaf even being involved in the plot. There was also little to no tension, as Goku never transformed into SS2 or 3 and many conflicts were settled a lot later than they should've been had the characters been more competent, such as the Zunama episode. Whilst I don't find Pan to be as annoying as most perceive her to be (mainly due to avoiding the atrocious English dub of GT whenever possible), and definitely far less annoying than Anime Chichi, she could still be very pretentious at times for a 9 year old.
Only positive I have to say about the arc is the Parapara dance scene being pretty funny and when your arc's main positive is some dumb joke, it says a lot.

Score - 1.5/10

 

[SSJ2]

0.5/10

The first several episodes set the tone for GT to be a pile of cancer. It literally seems like they made this arc to target 2-5 yr old fans, as the humour is awful, the plot is incredibly basic, and Pan got on the ship instead of fucking Gohan. That's a pretty big downgrade to have to put up with for the entire arc. The nonsense up to the Baby arc isn't even worth mentioning.. That entire episode where Pan almost died of dehydration on the sand planet? Gay. Zunama episode? Gay. The cancer on Imegga? Gay and fake. This arc has pretty well no redeeming qualities about it aside from making you want to end your life if you happen to be suicidal.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

0/10

With no Gohan, Vegeta and Goten which is the reason why this arc so bad that they immediately tried to to create new characters which failed so hard because Trunks and Pan are still green and they need a rub from the others to cement themselves kinda how Future Trunks, Gohan, Goten and Trunks from Z. Not to mention with turning Goku into a kid is like a middle-finger towards me and insults my intelligence.

 

[SSJ2]

They are still green? Were they spending intimate time with Pikkoro?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

They are still green? Were they spending intimate time with Pikkoro?

By the end of their sessions, they'll never have another orgasm without ecstatically shouting "UNCLE MOTONG!!"

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

I mean their characters.

 

[SSJ2]

Lol

I had no idea what that was from. Looked it up and wasn't disappointed.

 

[Flame]

Black-Star Dragon Ball Saga- 1/10

I'll say some good things about this saga.

I liked it when Vegeta got the phone call from those guys that had Goku hostage. That's all I've got.