Episode 111 hit is heavily underrated

[Miss Scarlet]

This guy:

*managed to block and react to almost every hit jiren made

*hit tell us that he is receiving the same blows goku received from jiren

*we see visible effort with jiren when he was throwing his fists towards him

*managed to receive two direct attacks from jiren without getting knocked

*we see at the end of the episode, how jiren say he was needed to defeat him and he and goku were the only warriors worth a shot, which means u7 fighters are seen as weaklings and for a good reason as shown in the end

This alone makes questionable whether god toppo could (or not) have stood a chance of defeating him, but it could also mean (which is very likely) that hit at potential level with his improvement could defeat toppo.

Hit (improved level in jiren's mind) > god toppo > hit (ep 111)

But, considering how jiren had no second doubts on letting toppo take on evolved ssb vegeta, it means that hit is at least stronger than that vegeta.

I don't get how all of these things are overviewed by people and prefer to put some zenkais to goku or vegeta, to overrate them. Whatever feat goku, vegeta, 17 or frieza managed to do on jiren we know they only managed to do it with team work, not on their own like hit did

 

[Miss Scarlet]

@SIAD
@GreatSaiyaman123
@Animelover5487
@Papasmurf
@Yoshi

I don't know who else to tag or who is interested in discussing super

 

[Papasmurf]

Idk about Hit > GoD Toppo considering Toppo had to abandon his very identity (and twice lol, the writers definitely don't cross check their scripts) to access that power and being able to activate it before being caught in that cage of time nonsense isn't a certainty. I'd also think Kefla is massively above Hit considering the hype she received and that she required a power greater than Goku's first usage of -Sign- to defeat.

But I'm not really a Super buff, I pretty much skipped half the ToP so there are people better suited to arguing this stance than I

 

[Animelover5487]

Hit did all those things because of Time Cag hax and even then someone like SSJ2 Kefla would be able to break out of it given her power was even above 2nd Sign Goku (Roshi said if any of her attacks connected Goku would be killed), and Jiren was using a lower power level against Hit then he used against Goku in their first fight

 

[SIAD]

I like having Hit hitting Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Vs Jiren when he threw the Genkidama).

Without a doubt, Hit achieved extraordinary power.

I think that Jiren used the same power to get out of the Time Cage that he used to defeat UI Sign Goku in Episode 110.

I would say that Jiren's level is at the level of UI Sign Goku (Kamehameha against Kefla), therefore, it may be that Hit's Time Cage could have even trapped Kefla SSJ2 (Peak).

It's simply incredible, but it's still tiny compared to UI Goku, Jiren, even that Time Cage can be destroyed by Vegeta SSJBE, God Toppo and Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Peak).

 

[MikaelHarding]

Jiren > Vegeta SSBE > Time Cage Hit > Goku SSBKKx20 > Vegeta SSB

 

[Miss Scarlet]

@Animelover4587

This is refering to u7 fighters and/or toppo vs hit. Jiren viewed hit as a threat and he decided to ring him out, he also grouped him with goku, as well as hit said he is receiving he managed to get the same hits from goku

@SIAD

We can't know toppo, vegeta or goku would get out of that time cage if even jiren had a hard time trying to move on it. Jiren himself doesn't have much confidence on anyone on his team to be capable of defeating hit, he basically considered the rest of u7 fighters as garbage and that basically toppo and dyspo could take care of

I consider that god toppo vs hit would be with toppo having an advantage at the beginning (similar to ssbe vegeta) but then hit would adapt and overcome toppo. There is needed a massive edge to defeat hit

 

[SIAD]

@Animelover4587

This is refering to u7 fighters and/or toppo vs hit.

@SIAD

We can't know toppo, vegeta or goku would get out of that time cage if even jiren had a hard time trying to move on it. Jiren himself doesn't have much confidence on anyone on his team to be capable of defeating hit, he basically considered the rest of u7 fighters as garbage and that basically toppo and dyspo could take care of

I consider that god toppo vs hit would be with toppo having an advantage at the beginning (similar to ssbe vegeta) but then hit would adapt and overcome toppo. There is needed a massive edge to defeat hit

Vegeta SSJBE (Initial) and Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Episode 123) should be stronger than Jiren (When leaving the Time Cage), since in Episode 122, Vegeta SSJB when fighting Jiren, mentions that Jiren has the greatest Ki that you have felt in your life. Which means Jiren (Deleted in Episode 122) >> All of the above.

Vegeta in Episode 122 becomes tremendously stronger when facing Jiren. Vegeta then surpasses his Limits as SSJB (SSJB2?) and launches a Fully Charged Final Flash. Vegeta thinks he hurt him, however, Jiren was even stronger than that and he didn't get hurt much from that attack.

At the end of Episode 122, Vegeta breaks his limits again, transforming into SSJBE and logically it should be >= Fully Charged Final Flash, the same attack that surpassed everything previously seen other than Jiren (Episode 122).

 

[Miss Scarlet]

Vegeta SSJBE (Initial) and Goku SSJB Kaioken x20 (Episode 123) should be stronger than Jiren (When leaving the Time Cage), since in Episode 122, Vegeta SSJB when fighting Jiren, mentions that Jiren has the greatest Ki that you have felt in your life. Which means Jiren (Deleted in Episode 122) >> All of the above.

While this is true, vegeta and goku were pretty much shown as useless when fighting jiren, once jiren took him seriously he bodied him with no effort. Everyone's performance against jiren can be taken with a grain of salt seen what frieza or 17 managed to do.

Vegeta in Episode 122 becomes tremendously stronger when facing Jiren. Vegeta then surpasses his Limits as SSJB (SSJB2?) and launches a Fully Charged Final Flash. Vegeta thinks he hurt him, however, Jiren was even stronger than that and he didn't get hurt much from that attack.

This proves either jiren was indeed much stronger than vegeta or toei simply not caring about ki amp, because vegeta's physical attacks has a bigger impact on him than on cell yet it did much more than cell than to jiren.

Although the final flash on itself could simply have been much stronger than vegeta himself given how tenshinhan compare it with the genkidama and jiren complimmented it with that strength not being half bad.

At the end of Episode 122, Vegeta breaks his limits again, transforming into SSJBE and logically it should be >= Fully Charged Final Flash, the same attack that surpassed everything previously seen other than Jiren (Episode 122).

There's nothing pointing out that way. Jiren still had no second doubts about toppo taking on vegeta, yet he specifically said he was needed for hit to be defeated. He starts considering vegeta as a threat when he defeated toppo.

 

[SIAD]

I think that both Goku and Vegeta, as they had difficult fights in the ToP, became too strong. Something similar happened in the Zamasu Arc.

 

[Miss Scarlet]

Can we say they reached hit's level based on those feats? @SIAD vegeta wasn't nowhere near a threat like hit was until 126 - 127

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Just rewatched the fight and he’s not as impressive as you make him to be. Hit was getting his butt kicked and wouldn’t have gotten anywhere near him without Timeskip. Hell he couldn’t even touch Jiren until the end.

@SIAD Vegeta used Ultra Instinct principles to see Jiren’s movements in episode 122. Neither of them powered up in that episode.

Jiren (Ep 122) >>>>>>>> SSJB Vegeta (Ep 122) = SSJB Vegeta (Start of ToP).

The Final Flash is probably stronger than the Genki-Dama since Belmond and Toppo feared for Jiren’s safety, but I wouldn’t put it beyond SSJ2 Kefla.

 

[Miss Scarlet]

@GreatSaiyaman123

Timeskip is something hit has to activate with time and preparation, not just by will. On top of it, there are many scenes of him blocking hits from jiren without using time skip (if time skip is the reason you nerf him) and he received minimal damage from the impacts, the fact that he could block, react and predict attacks from jiren tell us that he was far more capable of holding a fight than ssbkkx20 goku on his own.

Then there's also jiren saying he was needed to defeat him and being a threat at the level of goku. Something which vegeta and the rest was seen as useless that can't stand up to him.

You're just nitpicking from what you are willing to see and nothing else.