Feats of Power Level List

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@FeatsofPower here’s what I think you should start with.

First, cut down all the base levels. We’re off the 10x multiplier for good, right?

Second, 19 and 20 are nowhere near that strong. 2x Yardrat Goku? And they were called too weak and below the rumors? Around Yardrat Goku is where they peak at.

I got a nice set that places Android 19 at 60% of Vegeta like the good old days. I think we can stick with tanks being 2x gaps.

 

[FeatsofPower]

First, cut down all the base levels. We’re off the 10x multiplier for good, right?

Not necessarily. Gero’s statements are good and the 10x boost helps an awful lot with the Gotenks situation.

Second, 19 and 20 are nowhere near that strong. 2x Yardrat Goku? And they were called too weak and below the rumors? Around Yardrat Goku is where they peak at.

You talking pre or post Androids?

I got a nice set that places Android 19 at 60% of Vegeta like the good old days. I think we can stick with tanks being 2x gaps.

I thought that’s where we ended up anyway? At 60%?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Not necessarily. Gero’s statements are good and the 10x boost helps an awful lot with the Gotenks situation.

Gero is dumb and Base Gotenks is overrated, or at least Pre is. The author was not cooking anything with either character.

Base Post could go either way. Why can’t characters act dumb if the scene is not meant to be taken seriously?

You talking pre or post Androids?

Both. I’d have Post were you have Pre in this list.

Piccolo’s line goes both ways. He thinks he’s strong, but he also thinks the Androids are weak. And Vegeta’s line about the rumors should be clearly compared to Trunks. There are no rumors on Androids vs Trained Z Fighters.

Sometimes I wonder if the Androids should even be > Trunks. All they do is get beat up and mocked. That’s incredibly embarassing. At least we know they’re > Freeza based on a couple guidebooks.

I thought that’s where we ended up anyway? At 60%?

You have him at 50% and full tanks at 3x in this list. I’d say:

Vegeta > 19/Semi Cell = 60-66%
Gohan > PC = 55%
Semi Cell > 16 = 50%

PC > Vegeta is at least 50%, but I’d say more because of Trunks.

SSJ Vegeta: 10
~ ASSJ: 25

SSJ Trunks: 9.6
~ USSJ: 96

PC: At least 50, but 75 fits better so the buff boost isn’t too high.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Gero is dumb

He might be the smartest scientist in all of the universe. He created infinite energy reactors and an AI driven machine that created the strongest being in existence?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

He might be the smartest scientist in all of the universe. He created infinite energy reactors and an AI driven machine that created the strongest being in existence?

Even the best have their weak points. Bulma is smarter anyway, and Cell isn’t the strongest in existence by a long shot.

You know the drill here. 50x multiplier, repeated multiple times. 10x multiplier, misinterpretation of a interview long after the series ended. Diminishing multiplier, unsupported at best and debunked at worst. Gero’s statements, laughed away by every reader. Toriyama’s thought process? Who the fuck can tell what’s inside his mind?

Even the story puts Gero in the wrong. Absorbing Piccolo should mean he’s above Piccolo by his logic, but he isn’t.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Explain how Gero can’t do simple math that you and I can do.

Can the humans significantly power up Gero or not?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Explain how Gero can’t do simple math that you and I can do.

Can the humans significantly power up Gero or not?

They can’t power Gero significantly. They’re less than 2% of a Super Saiyan’s power, and Gero is expecting them to be even less since they’re suppressed and he doesn’t know it.

 

[FeatsofPower]

They can’t power Gero significantly.

Gero’s statements seem to contradict this thought. Gero implies they do power him up significantly.

They’re less than 2% of a Super Saiyan’s power,

This seems to be false since we know 2% of Super Saiyan wouldn’t be enough to significantly improve Gero which he states they would.

If they were merely that strong, they wouldn’t be worthwhile sources of power, which they clearly were.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Gero’s statements seem to contradict this thought. Gero implies they do power him up significantly.



This seems to be false since we know 2% of Super Saiyan wouldn’t be enough to significantly improve Gero which he states they would.

If they were merely that strong, they wouldn’t be worthwhile sources of power, which they clearly were.

People are fallible. He may be one of the smartest guys ever, but he got a lot of stuff wrong. That's why he lost. Even here he got debunked because Suppressed Piccolo didn't power him up that much. He still got stomped by Piccolo, yet absorbing Piccolo again would jump him to Vegeta's level?

How would SSJ not be 50x? Why would the multiplier be reduced? Where's the logic in that? Is the SSJ multiplier variable? I think you're approaching it backwards. The SSJ multiplier is factual, it's the basis for everything, proved by feats and repeated time and time again by out of universe sources. Gero's statement is what we should debate here.

 

[SIAD]

People are fallible. He may be one of the smartest guys ever, but he got a lot of stuff wrong. That's why he lost. Even here he got debunked because Suppressed Piccolo didn't power him up that much. He still got stomped by Piccolo, yet absorbing Piccolo again would jump him to Vegeta's level?

How would SSJ not be 50x? Why would the multiplier be reduced? Where's the logic in that? Is the SSJ multiplier variable? I think you're approaching it backwards. The SSJ multiplier is factual, it's the basis for everything, proved by feats and repeated time and time again by out of universe sources. Gero's statement is what we should debate here.

@MikaelHarding what do you think?

 

[FeatsofPower]

People are fallible. He may be one of the smartest guys ever, but he got a lot of stuff wrong. That's why he lost. Even here he got debunked because Suppressed Piccolo didn't power him up that much. He still got stomped by Piccolo, yet absorbing Piccolo again would jump him to Vegeta's level?

But @GreatSaiyaman123 this is a massive misunderstanding of the situation.

The point is not about Piccolo and Vegeta's actual power, but Vegeta's expected power.

If Dr. Gero is 100, what does he expect Vegeta to be?

 

[FeatsofPower]

How would SSJ not be 50x? Why would the multiplier be reduced? Where's the logic in that? Is the SSJ multiplier variable? I think you're approaching it backwards. The SSJ multiplier is factual, it's the basis for everything, proved by feats and repeated time and time again by out of universe sources. Gero's statement is what we should debate here.

It was never reduced, it was always 10x. Goku got a massive zenaki with his Super Saiyan transformation.

 

[MikaelHarding]

@MikaelHarding what do you think?

yes to 50x

 

[SIAD]

I think that initially the SSJ multiplier is 50x, but in the Arc Android it is 10x.

I think that after Future Trunks warned the Z Fighters about the future threat, they all trained very hard and I think that for some reason the SSJ trio didn't increase their powers too much in their SSJ forms, but I think they did in their Base state.

Imagine if Vegeta had not reached his SSJ form, do you really think that Vegeta would have only tripled his power in those 3 years that he trained so much?

I think the SSJs were hitting a temporary wall, but that's not the case with their Base forms.

I think that the Saiyans, after spending some time training at Rosat, their SSJ forms returned to being 50x the Base.

Like @FeatsofPower I think that because SSJ Vegeta had worn out, Android #20 estimated that if he absorbed Piccolo (Weighted) + Gohan, Krillin and Tenshinhan, he could surpass that version of SSJ Vegeta.

I think Android #20 judged SSJ Vegeta's power, when the latter briefly chased him.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

But @GreatSaiyaman123 this is a massive misunderstanding of the situation.

The point is not about Piccolo and Vegeta's actual power, but Vegeta's expected power.

If Dr. Gero is 100, what does he expect Vegeta to be?

Why not something close like 110?

Mind you, Gero never saw Vegeta eat the senzu. So he might not expect to close that massive Vegeta >>> 19 post >> 20 pre gap. Just the gap over a weakened Vegeta.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

There could also be a difference between the energy absorbed and the power level displayed as per @Goku9001’s posts in the other thread, though admittedly I’m just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks with this one. Not sure if this is how it works here.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Just the gap over a weakened Vegeta.

Vegeta was weaker than Gero.

 

[FeatsofPower]

So he might not expect to close that massive Vegeta >>> 19 post >> 20 pre gap. Just the gap over a weakened Vegeta.

This is a great point. The Dragon Team needs to be able to close the gap on 19 Post who should be significantly above 20.

Unless you are arguing 20 Pre > 19 Post

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta was weaker than Gero.

But Gero didn’t know that, remember?

This is a great point. The Dragon Team needs to be able to close the gap on 19 Post who should be significantly above 20.

Unless you are arguing 20 Pre > 19 Post

I think they are. Gero absorbed a blast from Vegeta anyway. He probably thinks he’s close to Vegeta just because he absorbed that blast.

 

[Goku9001]

This is a great point. The Dragon Team needs to be able to close the gap on 19 Post who should be significantly above 20.

Unless you are arguing 20 Pre > 19 Post

20 Pre > 19 Post. Why is 19 Post stronger?