Freeza fight power levels

[ahill1]

Tien can't see that Goku is using Kkx10 because Goku doesn't have an aura. Or else Tien would know.

Well P, you are just not consistent then since now you are arguing Goku never showed a Kaioken aura at any moment. So this tells me you are not following the red aura depiction of the colored manga, so you have nothing to stand on Goku not using Kaioken before. All Ten highlights is the Kaioken x10. He talks about the Kaioken to single out the Kaioken x10. It's not like Ten's answer to Kaio is "so is he not just using the Kk but also the Kk 10x?"... He focused on the Kaioken x10 in his answer only, meaning that was the point of the rethorical question "have you forgotten about the Kaioken?", which reads more as "have you forgotten about Goku's capabilities with the Kaioken,"...

 

[ahill1]

Plus, Ten wasn't watching the fight. He was getting everything informed by Kaio. So the point about Ten knowing or not is moot.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Fair enough, but I’d say the colored manga is incorrect, just the same as your stance since the initial assault is not colored red.

Goku doesn’t show Kaioken anymore now that he’s at his level, these are all just flight auras.

 

[Hector]

I have Goku at 6,500,000 when he fought Freeza. 3,000,000 makes no sense.

Initial Freeza is more than 2x 3rd Form Freeza, since his power up lasted longer than his previous ones and a greater deal was made out of it, and the power up from 1st to 2nd form was 2x.

Freeza 3rd Form- 2.12 million
Freeza 4th form (initial)- 5 million
Vegeta (initial)- 4.8 million
Vegeta (anime filler power up)- 7.2 million
Freeza (silent power up)- 7.5 million
Freeza (speed up)- 9 million
Goku (initial)- 9 million
Goku (full power)- 13.5 million
Freeza (no hands)- 15 million

 

[Goku9001]

Nah, this is too close.


C'mon now.


You would never ever ever ever come up with numbers like this if not for the 3 million number, so stop.

It doesn't matter. This is what we have to work with and it doesn't contradict the manga in the least. It is certainly better than forging your own subjective numbers because you are uncomfortable with the official numbers that were given.

 

[FeatsofPower]

It doesn't matter. This is what we have to work with and it doesn't contradict the manga in the least. It is certainly better than forging your own subjective numbers because you are uncomfortable with the official numbers that were given.

The official numbers lack consistency. Subjective is not good but inter subjective is what we generally discuss. Our inter subjective numbers are consistent the numbers the author gives us are not subjective.

Wouldn’t you agree that consistency and logic supersede inconsistency and irrationality?

 

[SIAD]

2nd Form Frieza:
~ Initial: 1,060,000
~ Powered Up: 1,300,000
~ Full Power: 1,550,000

Piccolo:
~ Weighted: 1,350,000
~ Full Power: 1,600,000

3rd Form Frieza: 1,950,000

4th Form Frieza:
~Initial: 2,200,000
~vs. Vegeta/Warm Up: 2,700,000
~vs. Vegeta(Kick)/No Hands: 3,200,000

Vegeta:
~ Full Power: 2,200,000
~ Full Power (Blast): 2,750,000

Goku:
~ Warm Up: 2,600,000
~ Full Power: 3,000,000

The numbers look good man.

@FeatsofPower What are your numbers for these characters?

 

[Goku9001]

The official numbers lack consistency. Subjective is not good but inter subjective is what we generally discuss. Our inter subjective numbers are consistent the numbers the author gives us are not subjective.

Wouldn’t you agree that consistency and logic supersede inconsistency and irrationality?

You're dealing with a series that isn't always consistent. Regardless, the numbers work well enough with the gaps we are given.

 

[FeatsofPower]

You're dealing with a series that isn't always consistent.

Would you agree that more consistent is better than less consistent?

Regardless, the numbers work well enough with the gaps we are given.

Majority of the inter subjective, reasonable opinion would 100% disagree. We have to remain in reality regardless of what side of the argument we are on. You would never argue for such spacing for any other saga and you’ve made a lengthy career here advocating for the very same principles I’m applying here, yet for this one off you are trying to make it seem like you don’t. That isn’t arguing in good faith brother.

 

[FeatsofPower]

@FeatsofPower What are your numbers for these characters?

Which one is specific?

 

[SIAD]

Which one is specific?

@FeatsofPower

I'm refering to these characters:

2nd Form Frieza:
~ Initial:
~ Powered Up:
~ Full Power:

Piccolo:
~ Weighted:
~ Full Power:

3rd Form Frieza:

4th Form Frieza:
~Initial:
~vs. Vegeta/Warm Up:
~vs. Vegeta(Kick)/No Hands:

Vegeta:
~ Full Power:
~ Full Power (Blast):

Goku:
~ Warm Up:
~ Full Power:

 

[FeatsofPower]

2nd Form 1,060,00
-Powered Up 1,350,000
~ Full Power 1,600,000

Piccolo 1,375,000
~ Full Power 1,750,000

3rd Form Freeza 2,250,000

Vegeta 4,500,000
~Final Burst Cannon 6,000,0000

Goku 5,750,000
Full Power 7,500,000

Freeza 5,000,000
Powered Up 6,000,000
Full Power 8,750,000

Something like that.

 

[SIAD]

2nd Form 1,060,00
-Powered Up 1,350,000
~ Full Power 1,600,000

Piccolo 1,375,000
~ Full Power 1,750,000

3rd Form Freeza 2,250,000

Vegeta 4,500,000
~Final Burst Cannon 6,000,0000

Goku 5,750,000
Full Power 7,500,000

Freeza 5,000,000
Powered Up 6,000,000
Full Power 8,750,000

So: Vegeta (Final Zenkai) = Goku FSSJ (M4)?

 

[FeatsofPower]

So: Vegeta (Final Zenkai) = Goku FSSJ (M4)?

I’m not too familiar with the Slug movie.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I don’t think that was KK either. Aura only shows once.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I don’t think that was KK either. Aura only shows once.

I’m making the argument that the Kaioken aura is actually never present and AT is utilizing only flight auras. I think that may be the best approach here. Look into it.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I’m making the argument that the Kaioken aura is actually never present and AT is utilizing only flight auras. I think that may be the best approach here. Look into it.

Yeah, problem here is that they look the same so it can be confusing.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Yeah, problem here is that they look the same so it can be confusing.

Exactly and then there doesn’t seem to be a combat point where there is an aura it’s only flight aura. Freeza has flight aura too.

Goku doesn’t display a KK author the colored manga messed up here imo.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Exactly and then there doesn’t seem to be a combat point where there is an aura it’s only flight aura. Freeza has flight aura too.

Goku doesn’t display a KK author the colored manga messed up here imo.

But the colored manga made it a flight aura. The coloring job is very bad though, so I wouldn’t rely on it. They made Appule green!

Doesn’t KK also give Goku’s skin a different tint?

 

[FeatsofPower]

But the colored manga made it a flight aura. The coloring job is very bad though, so I wouldn’t rely on it. They made Appule green!

I’m talking about the portion where Goku is colored in red. I get the feeling even that is inaccurate. Goku has such control over the Kaioken x10 I don’t think the aura exudes from him.

Now Kkx20 is beyond his ability to control it in that way, so we see it.

We need to compare KKx20 to KKx10 to see what’s up.