Freeza

[Kyo]

I haven't done this in 5+ years.

Gohan (potential unlock): 10,800
Krillin (potential unlock): 10,100

Vegeta: 29,800

Gurd: 5,000
Recoom: 40,000
Butta: 40,000
Jheese: 40,000

Goku: 90,000
- vs Ginyus: 66,000
- vs Ginyu: 75,000
- KKx2: 180,000

Ginyu: 120,000
- vs Goku: 80,000
- in Goku: <23,000

Gohan: 27,000
Krillin: 25,000
Vegeta: 60,000

Nail: 42,000

---

Freeza: 530,000

Vegeta: 490,000

Gohan: 320,000
- Enraged: 930,000

Piccolo: 275,000
- w/o weights: 330,000

2nd form Freeza: 1,060,000
- Powered up: 1,300,000
- Full power: 1,600,000

Gohan (zenkai): 1,000,000

Piccolo w/ Nail: 1,360,000
- w/o weights: 1,640,000

3rd form Freeza: 2,250,000

Vegeta (zenkai): 5,600,000
- Full power blast: 9,000,000

4th form Freeza: 5,600,000
- vs Vegeta: 8,800,000
- vs Goku: 10,400,000

Goku: 10,000,000

---

Freeza (ground battle, full effort, no hands): 13,500,000
- 50% power: 280,000,000
- blocking KHH: 320,000,000

Goku (full power): 12,000,000
- KKx10: 120,000,000
- KKx20: 240,000,000
-- KHH: 300,000,000

100% Freeza: 560,000,000
- Forcefield: 1,500,000,000

SSJ Goku: 600,000,000
- KHH: 1,500,000,000

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Goku-Ginyu is the kewlest. I wish he had worn a scouter more. The golden aura was keeeeeeeeeeeeeewl.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

hey old-meng @Theallpowerfulpuipui i'm calling you out

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Guys look Kyo is out of retirement

I like the idea of Freeza being at 1% when he first goes to 4th form, but the Daizenshuu totally overrides me on that. Vegeta having such a high amp is weird too. He just failed to pull off anything above 1.33x vs Recoome!

Man, I’m totally not used to seeing Kuririn and Gohan barely above 10k. It doesn’t really matter, but is there any reason to not use the 13k and 14k?

 

[Kyo]

Vegeta's amp is actually the one thing I was most unsure of. You're probably right that it should be smaller, but it still has to be strong enough to give Freeza pause even for a split second. I'd have to make a Saiyan arc list first, since whatever he's using here probably isn't any worse than Galick Gun. And if you want the amp small, it pretty much has to be assumed that Goku's KKx3 is weaker during the beam struggle (which isn't all that far-fetched, but worth noting).

13k-14k is low enough to where I don't see why Jheese wouldn't be more specific if that's what they really were.

 

[ahill1]

Nice list, I have close levels except for post freeza Zenkai Gohan (have him at around 600k) and I just roll with Goku being 3,000,000 nowadays as I see it as plenty. But I got nothing to question.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Vegeta (zenkai): 5,600,000
- Full power blast: 9,000,000

Did Vegeta have this ki amp with the Galick Gun as well?

 

[FeatsofPower]

Vegeta's amp is actually the one thing I was most unsure of.

Yeah, it most likely isn't much above 1.33x considering his pseudo-Final Flash was unable to do much to Reecome.

Also, I've always thought the best approach to handling true form Freeza's power was to go by this.

No Hands vs Goku = Full Effort Kicking Back Final Burst Cannon vs Vegeta
Warming up vs Goku = When I increase my speed a little vs Vegeta
Initial vs Goku = Initial vs Vegeta

I think Freeza is raising his level based on his effort here. This topic hasn't been explored enough but this is an ultimate game changer to setting up the Super Saiyan levels.

The idea that the guy who kicked back the Final Burst Cannon is easily being handled by Goku initially is quite scary and that indeed would force the power levels to drastically go up.

This might be a great topic on it's own, I'll start it up.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta: 2,400,000
~ Planet Buster: 3,200,000 (1.33x from GG)

Goku: 3,000,000

Freeza: 3,600,000

 

[FeatsofPower]

Vegeta: 2,400,000
~ Planet Buster: 3,200,000 (1.33x from GG)

Yeah, I think 1.33x is the correct formula. I also think that 1.33x is the correct formula for Kamehameha. I think Kamehameha and Galick Gun should be equals. Now that Kaioken Kamehameha is definitely nerfed, but the regular Kamehameha should be 1.33x.

Which leads me to believe regular Kamehameha should be smaller.

Vegeta: 2,400,000
~ Planet Buster: 3,200,000 (1.33x from GG)

Goku: 3,000,000

Freeza: 3,600,000

You are missing several levels of power here.

Freeza FP >= Goku FP > Goku Warm Up > Vegeta

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah, I think 1.33x is the correct formula. I also think that 1.33x is the correct formula for Kamehameha. I think Kamehameha and Galick Gun should be equals. Now that Kaioken Kamehameha is definitely nerfed, but the regular Kamehameha should be 1.33x.

Which leads me to believe regular Kamehameha should be smaller.

I really want to go with this “BoZ Goku and Piccolo >> 400ish” that ahill has been throwing around, it explains the Kamehameha amp nicely, but it doesn’t feel right.

You are missing several levels of power here.

Freeza FP >= Goku FP > Goku Warm Up > Vegeta

I’d say Freeza “FP” is a solid > Goku FP as you can see from my numbers, maybe even close to >>. Freeza is fighting without his hands here.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I really want to go with this “BoZ Goku and Piccolo >> 400ish” that ahill has been throwing around, it explains the Kamehameha amp nicely, but it doesn’t feel right.

The BoZ numbers don't line up with the original portion of the story.

The humans are probably only around King Piccolo level, Kami is at least 10x that and then Goku and Piccolo are probably 5x that.

Roshi is also a world beneath them as well.

The BoZ numbers have always been the most faulty, I think they just have to be completely redone.

The only power level I'd consider "wrong" is Vegeta and Cui's 18k, and it's not anywhere close to being that bad. If they were say 16k everything would be fine. Everything else is doable, but BoZ numbers need complete reworking.

 

[FeatsofPower]

I’d say Freeza “FP” is a solid > Goku FP as you can see from my numbers, maybe even close to >>. Freeza is fighting without his hands here.

Where is Initial Freeza and Warm up Freeza?

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The BoZ numbers don't line up with the original portion of the story.

The humans are probably only around King Piccolo level, Kami is at least 10x that and then Goku and Piccolo are probably 5x that.

Roshi is also a world beneath them as well.

The BoZ numbers have always been the most faulty, I think they just have to be completely redone.

The only power level I'd consider "wrong" is Vegeta and Cui's 18k, and it's not anywhere close to being that bad. If they were say 16k everything would be fine. Everything else is doable, but BoZ numbers need complete reworking.

Yeah power levels just don’t exist before Z. Or if they do, they work very differently since they only used Ki for special attacks. It’s plain martial arts most of the time, and their strength is pure muscle instead of Ki.

The shouki/yuuki loss explanation has always worked very well, at least for Kui. For Dodoria and Zarbon it’s a bit more tricky.

Where is Initial Freeza and Warm up Freeza?

Talking with Kyo on the other thread to see if those levels even matter. Right now I don’t think it’s any more important than whatever effort Raditz uses vs Goku and Piccolo.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Talking with Kyo on the other thread to see if those levels even matter. Right now I don’t think it’s any more important than whatever effort Raditz uses vs Goku and Piccolo.

Well Raditz should have multiple levels against the Z team as well. Raditz power levels are notoriously overlooked, same with Freeza.

Freeza might be hiding his power too, Goku doesn't seem to understand how Vegeta got defeated so easily.

 

[FeatsofPower]

SSJ Goku: 600,000,000
- KHH: 1,500,000,000

Why is the KHH so amped and Final Burst Cannon not?

Do you really think equal level Goku vs Vegeta won't be an equal clash of ki blasts?

 

[Kyo]

KHH at BoZ is ~2.22x. There's no getting around that.

It's reasonable to assume that Vegeta isn't nearly as good at ki amplification as Goku, considering that Raditz, who hung around him a lot, wasn't even familiar with the concept. Even Vegeta was weirded out at the power of Gohan's Masenko.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Well Raditz should have multiple levels against the Z team as well. Raditz power levels are notoriously overlooked, same with Freeza.

Freeza might be hiding his power too, Goku doesn't seem to understand how Vegeta got defeated so easily.

Yeah but nobody cares about Raditz’s holding back levels since they don’t affect the scaling.

Goku is just confused because everybody keeps getting stronger.

I think this is what I got:

Vegeta: 2,400,000
~ Planet Buster: 3,200,000

Freeza: 2,650,000
~ Serious: 3,240,000 (Raises speed then power)

Goku: 3,000,000

Freeza underestimates Goku at 2.65 million, then gets serious at 3.2 million. I lowered that gap because I re-read the fight and Freeza does struggle a lot in the no hands fight. It’s not a comfortable gap at all. Warm up doesn’t look like a power up, though Freeza was Goku’s equal there.

 

[Kyo]

The no hands thing is kinda subjective. You know how hard it is to fight without your arms? Even taking into account the fact that Freeza can levitate, it's still pretty damn hard. I'm pretty liberal with that gap as a result.

 

[SSJ2]

What gave you the impression that powered up Ginyu was that far ahead of 75k Goku?