Gap between Cell and Goku. What do you think it is?

[kriss-]

Goku was withholding his true power during the Cell Games, he was stronger than Cell was the entire time.

 

[Victorious]

Cell : 100
--- post regen : 85
Goku : 90
---- post KHH : 75
Vegeta : 60
Kamiccolo : 50

I think you had Kamiccolo at 88% of Vegeta.

And where do you have Gohan and real speed Cell?

Real speed Cell i'd have at 120 along with Gohan.

And Yeah, maybe i'd raise Kamiccolo up to 53. Those were just quick numbers.

 

[Victorious]

Goku was withholding his true power during the Cell Games, he was stronger than Cell was the entire time.

Yeah that's right, he just didnt want to hurt Vegeta's feelings.

 

[kriss-]

Goku was withholding his true power during the Cell Games, he was stronger than Cell was the entire time.

Yeah that's right, he just didnt want to hurt Vegeta's feelings.

Or your moms.

 

[Animelover5487]

This is a rough draft of my placments for the Cell Games


Cell (Warming Up) = 207

- True Speed = 250

- Full Power = 312.5

- Power Weighted = 350

- Super Perfect = 480



Gohan (Base) = 5

- SSJ = 250

- SSJ2 = 500


Goku (Base) = 3.75

- SSJ = 187.5


Cell Juniors = 160


Vegeta (Base) = 3

- SSJ = 150


Trunks (Base) = 2.9

- SSJ = 145

Piccolo = 125

 

[Six Trails]

1.125x.

 

[SSJ2]

I'd say his power increased, as Gohan had no trouble with him pre speed boost, but was too weak to fight back post speed boost.

No, his power didn't increase. I think that Cell would've mentioned something so important like this. The quote even implies that he only increased speed. I don't see Cell missing an opportunity to prove that he was the "mightiest warrior"

What mainly proves that is the fact that Cell was kicked by Gohan and was in the ground instantly, while Gohan uickly shrugged of a hit from True Speed Cell.

I didn't see this earlier. Speed generally raises with power according to Vegeta on Namek. In this case it is possible that Cell's speed only increased, but I'd say power definitely did too. When he was restraining Gohan, speed was not a factor, yet Gohan was clearly overpowered.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I always assumed it was just his speed that increased. Cell didn't seem any stronger than before. When he has Gohan in the bear hug, Cell says he could snap his spine and questions why Gohan is still afraid to fight back. Gohan was just being a bitch there.

 

[SSJ2]

Gohan was still unable to escape when the Cell Juniors were fighting the Z Senshi. If Gohan and Cell were on par, I don't think Cell would have knocked him down so easily.

 

[Tapion]

I'd say his power increased, as Gohan had no trouble with him pre speed boost, but was too weak to fight back post speed boost.

No, his power didn't increase. I think that Cell would've mentioned something so important like this. The quote even implies that he only increased speed. I don't see Cell missing an opportunity to prove that he was the "mightiest warrior"

What mainly proves that is the fact that Cell was kicked by Gohan and was in the ground instantly, while Gohan uickly shrugged of a hit from True Speed Cell.

I didn't see this earlier. Speed generally raises with power according to Vegeta on Namek. In this case it is possible that Cell's speed only increased, but I'd say power definitely did too. When he was restraining Gohan, speed was not a factor, yet Gohan was clearly overpowered.

Vegeta stated that when his battle power raised(from 18,000 to 24,000) his speed also raised, but there is nothing saying that you can't suppress speed AND power. It is implied that Cell was suppressing his power and going all out in speed against Gohan.

And Vegeta's statement is retconned, because Ginyu is stronger than Goku but Goku is the faster one according to Herms

 

[Papasmurf]

Ginyu's slow speed isn't necessarily a retcon. Butta having greater speed than people he's similar to in power already showed the two don't always increase proportionately. Something that continues to be mentioned in the Cell and Boo arcs.

Conversely, we do know that a suppressed individual will lose some of his speed based on Tenshinhan's quote in the Cell arc as well. Both power and speed rise (except when using SSJg3) as an individual powers up.

 

[SSJ2]

No, his power didn't increase. I think that Cell would've mentioned something so important like this. The quote even implies that he only increased speed. I don't see Cell missing an opportunity to prove that he was the "mightiest warrior"

What mainly proves that is the fact that Cell was kicked by Gohan and was in the ground instantly, while Gohan uickly shrugged of a hit from True Speed Cell.

I didn't see this earlier. Speed generally raises with power according to Vegeta on Namek. In this case it is possible that Cell's speed only increased, but I'd say power definitely did too. When he was restraining Gohan, speed was not a factor, yet Gohan was clearly overpowered.

Vegeta stated that when his battle power raised(from 18,000 to 24,000) his speed also raised, but there is nothing saying that you can't suppress speed AND power. It is implied that Cell was suppressing his power and going all out in speed against Gohan.

And Vegeta's statement is retconned, because Ginyu is stronger than Goku but Goku is the faster one according to Herms

I never said you can't only suppress one of them. I'm saying that it isn't the case here in my opinion. How do you explain Gohan being overpowered by Cell in multiple occasions after showing a clear advantage initially?

Where is it retconned? Your point is irrelevant because Ginyu later realizes that Goku was still holding back power. If Ginyu and Goku were around 75k when they were fighting, Goku could still raise his speed to a 90k level while keeping his battle power at 75k.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I actually think Cell is stronger than Gohan.

I just don't think Cell ever increased anything more than speed.

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think you can access your 100% power's speed without actually powering up to 100% in some form. Tenshinhan increased his speed to tool weighted Goku, but it's stated he was merely suppressing his speed (e.g. being slower than he could be) to test him out. Yet when his ki was suppressed, he lost speed because of it. It wouldn't make much sense if 70% Freeza could access his 100% speed to keep up with Goku despite being way weaker than him, for instance.

 

[SSJ2]

Gohan has no trouble blocking Cell's hits initially, and being able to outspeed him is a sign of superiority imo. Also it has to be considered that Gohan took absolutely no damage from Cell initially. At one point, Cell actually thought that he had killed Gohan, yet Gohan took no damage from his attack. I'd say that says SSJ Gohan > Cell @ Goku.

 

[SSJ2]

I don't think you can access your 100% power's speed without actually powering up to 100% in some form. Tenshinhan increased his speed to tool weighted Goku, but it's stated he was merely suppressing his speed (e.g. being slower than he could be) to test him out. Yet when his ki was suppressed, he lost speed because of it. It wouldn't make much sense if 70% Freeza could access his 100% speed to keep up with Goku despite being way weaker than him, for instance.

True, I'll have to agree then.

It should still be generally accepted that speed raises with power, just not perfectly linearly.

 

[Papasmurf]

I guess you can "mask" your ki power like how Goku seemed to be 5000 yet was 60k or above, but Vegeta still states he powered up really fast to do that.

 

[SSJ2]

I'd say it's unlikely. His power isn't noted to raise in this scenario. Something would have been said.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah I tend to think he just didn't need his full speed while suppressed to fight Goku, but used it against Gohan who was too fast to hit. He never raises his power to full until SSJ2 Gohan kills the Cell Juniors.

 

[SSJ2]

Oh, I was talking about Goku vs Ginyu lol.

I dunno, how do you counter none of his blows affecting Gohan initially?