Gap between CG Goku and Gohan [Equal Forms]

[Natasha Romanoff]

How much of a gap do you estimate from this?

Gohan didn't thought much of Goku and thought he was holding back:

Spoiler

Gohan was easily blocking and dodging punches that were too hard to predict for Goku:

Spoiler

In the Buu Saga, Vegeta initially doesn't know how he compares with Gohan that has lost power:

Spoiler

Vegeta thought he could beat Goku despite of knowing he got stronger:

Spoiler

If reactions are anything to go by, Gohan didn't think much of FP Goku:

Spoiler

So, how much of a gap do you estimate in between those spaces?

CG Goku = 1
Cell (vs Goku) = ?
CG Gohan = ?
True speed Cell = ?

CG Goku = 1
Expected Goku = ?
PM Vegeta = ?
CG Gohan = ?

Gohan (Vegeta's expectations) = ?

 

[Hector]

CG Goku = 1
Cell (vs Goku) = 1.1
CG Gohan = 1.3
True speed Cell = 1.3
PM Vegeta = 1.4
Expected Goku = 1.2
Expected Gohan = 1.3

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

CG Goku = 1
Cell (vs Goku) = 1.1
CG Gohan = 1.3
True speed Cell = 1.3
PM Vegeta = 1.4
Expected Goku = 1.2
Expected Gohan = 1.3

PM Vegeta doesn't know how he stacks up to a Gohan that has gotten weaker, is unlikely for him to surpass CG Gohan on equal forms.

Also, are you implying that Expected Gohan has the same power as his kid self?

 

[Hector]

PM Vegeta doesn't know how he stacks up to a Gohan that has gotten weaker, is unlikely for him to surpass CG Gohan on equal forms.

Also, are you implying that Expected Gohan has the same power as his kid self?

Gohan's power loss wasn't noticed before he went SSJ2. In my books, Budokai Gohan is equal to his Cell Games self in Base/SSJ.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Gohan's power loss wasn't noticed before he went SSJ2. In my books, Budokai Gohan is equal to his Cell Games self in Base/SSJ.

Because everyone was surpressed/in a resting state, similar as to why Vegeta couldn't know he was weaker than Goku pre Babidi ship.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Is Cell attacking Gohan with the same intensity he attacked Goku? It seems like Cell underestimated Gohan even after senses his Ki. He not only falsely thinks he killed Gohan, but also wants to get back to fighting Goku.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Is Cell attacking Gohan with the same intensity he attacked Goku? It seems like Cell underestimated Gohan even after senses his Ki. He not only falsely thinks he killed Gohan, but also wants to get back to fighting Goku.

Because now that Gohan is dead (in Cell's mind), he has to get the 2nd best option to fight. He acknowledges that Goku wasn't that wrong on what he said, but Gohan can't defeat him (likely refering to his hidden power level).

That attack actually didn't even make Gohan's ki decrease.

 

[Hector]

Because everyone was surpressed/in a resting state, similar as to why Vegeta couldn't know he was weaker than Goku pre Babidi ship.

I see no reason to descrease Gohan's Base/SSJ power after the 7-year gap. His lack of training just limited his access to the SSJ2 boost.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

I see no reason to descrease Gohan's Base/SSJ power after the 7-year gap. His lack of training just limited his access to the SSJ2 boost.

It made Vegeta be upset about how low his level is than when he was a kid and diminished absurdly whatever expectations he had on him. On equal forms, there's no reason to not have Goku stronger than Vegeta and Vegeta stronger than Gohan. Similar to kid Gohan being ahead of an expected Gohan and the actual Gohan being weaker than that.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Because now that Gohan is dead (in Cell's mind), he has to get the 2nd best option to fight. He acknowledges that Goku wasn't that wrong on what he said, but Gohan can't defeat him (likely refering to his hidden power level).

That attack actually didn't even make Gohan's ki decrease.

But Goku was always the first option in his head. He never wanted to stop fighting Goku and thought Gohan stepping in was a joke, even after Gohan powered up. Makes no sense for Cell to power up, kill the way stronger Gohan in 2-3 blows, and then hold back again Goku.

 

[ahill1]

About 1.25x to me.

 

[Power Level Guy]

I think what's really large is the enraged multiplier and Goku.



Enraged Gohan 900
Gohan 750
Goku 500

Regular Gohan is no doubt significantly superior to Goku at least by 1.25x-1.33x bare minimum.

 

[Hector]

It made Vegeta be upset about how low his level is than when he was a kid and diminished absurdly whatever expectations he had on him.

Depends on whether you think Gohan fought Dabura as SSJ.

 

[Yoshi]

I have it at a x1.5 gap. I think that’s realistic.

 

[SSJ2]

CG Goku = 1
Cell (vs Goku) = 1.1
CG Gohan = 1.4
True speed Cell = 1.25

PM Vegeta = 1.25

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

But Goku was always the first option in his head. He never wanted to stop fighting Goku and thought Gohan stepping in was a joke, even after Gohan powered up. Makes no sense for Cell to power up, kill the way stronger Gohan in 2-3 blows, and then hold back again Goku.

If the episode is called "the warrior who surpassed Goku", what could be the intention of having Cell randomly using a level of effort below of Goku against Gohan? But to portray Gohan as his superior?

Gohan unlike Goku never forced Cell to use his real speed. Btw, he just considered a joke the idea of Gohan defeating him.

Spoiler

He did wanted to fight Goku when he hasn't discovered the full exent of Gohan's abilities yet, and then when he thought Gohan died, is when he wants to fight Goku again. Gohan could have never been respected properly by Cell considering that he is just a kid that doesn't like fighting (which he admits) in relation to how he admires Goku because he fight better than anyone else which is what he acknowledges and consider it a sport.

Spoiler

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

If the episode is called "the warrior who surpassed Goku", what could be the intention of having Cell randomly using a level of effort below of Goku against Gohan? But to portray Gohan as his superior?

Gohan unlike Goku never forced Cell to use his real speed. Btw, he just considered a joke the idea of Gohan defeating him.

He did wanted to fight Goku when he hasn't discovered the full exent of Gohan's abilities yet, and then when he thought Gohan died, is when he wants to fight Goku again. Gohan could have never been respected properly by Cell considering that he is just a kid that doesn't like fighting (which he admits) in relation to how he admires Goku because he fight better than anyone else which is what he acknowledges and consider it a sport.

Because Gohan > Goku. We see this when it's revealed that the attacks that heavily injured Goku could only scratch Gohan.

It's not "randomly", and I never said Cell is below Goku. Cell thought Gohan was nothing despite sensing his power, made a fool of himself trying to hit Gohan and failing.

What are you talking about? Gohan did make Cell use his real speed and you just posted it. What is Cell's "real speed" if not the full speed of his current level?

Agreed, but that only means Goku, with his fighting spirit and ingenuity, is a more interesting match than Gohan. But if Gohan is way stronger, than Goku being a good fighter means nothing.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Because Gohan > Goku. We see this when it's revealed that the attacks that heavily injured Goku could only scratch Gohan.

It's not "randomly", and I never said Cell is below Goku. Cell thought Gohan was nothing despite sensing his power, made a fool of himself trying to hit Gohan and failing.

What are you talking about? Gohan did make Cell use his real speed and you just posted it. What is Cell's "real speed" if not the full speed of his current level?

Agreed, but that only means Goku, with his fighting spirit and ingenuity, is a more interesting match than Gohan. But if Gohan is way stronger, than Goku being a good fighter means nothing.

I mean to a level of effort below of what he used to Goku. Not that you said that he is below Goku.

That tell us that he heavily underestimated Gohan, but he acknowledged twice how much of a resistence he has and how fast he is, which his prejudice would never make him acknowledge because he is a kid. He respected Goku quite a lot, he asked Trunks what he is doing after Trunks gave up, he considered the Cell Games would be worthy because of him. So he always had Goku in high esteem.

Cell made two increases of speed: one used against Goku and the other used against Gohan. He never made any remark of using that level against Goku, but rather, making things interesting to an exent.

As much as Cell understand saiyan' psychology, which made Vegeta convince to get his perfect form, the idea of Gohan not wanting to fight goes against that ideal of what he consider worthy of a challenge, which is why he would prefer Goku than Gohan no matter where you look at it.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah forget this stuff about Cell using less effort on Gohan. I was just playing devil's advocate a bit. His attitude with Gohan is very weird though. Like, he makes a point to only raise speed and then he's surprised Gohan isn't hurt?

CG Goku: 1
Cell (Vs Goku): 1.1
CG Gohan: 1.2~1.3
PM Vegeta: 1.2~1.3

1.2 sounds better for the Cell Games, but 1.3 fits better with the Boo Saga.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Cell was always like that. He didn't want to admit Vegeta and Piccolo were stronger than him before getting his ass whooped and rather say that they fought pretty well to console himself, so Gohan wasn't the first one he could do that either.