Gap between Kamiccolo and Super Saiyans

[SSJ2]

It's clearly a huge gap. People only argue otherwise because they take Vegeta's fight with #18 way too literally and ignore every other statement that renders Vegeta's "performance" meaningless.

I would disagree. After Vegeta and 18 say that they will be going all out, Vegeta is able to make her put in a lot of work, and even gets in hits if I'm not mistaken. The gap only needs to be bigger than 1.2x, because she was able to handle Trunks and a weakened Vegeta at the same time.

Exactly what I mean by taking the fight too literally. #18 was clearly trolling Vegeta. She called him and Goku "nothing special" and thought that he was "pretending to be weak" when he fought her (when she saw how powerful he had become against 2nd form Cell).

Well yeah, I'm not denying she had a one shot level gap over Vegeta, I just don't see it being 1.4x anymore. 1.25x still does it justice, as if memory serves, she was still taking him seriously when he was at full power. Was it not when his energy was stated to be draining that she started to play around more?

 

[Papasmurf]

I don't think she really played around more when Vegeta's energy began to drain. That's around the time she broke his arm with one kick and beat Trunks single-handedly.

 

[ahill1]

Vegeta is still weaker than Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town), whereas only weighted Kamiccolo was able to handle him without problems. I'd say the gap i pretty large. The gap between Kamiccolo and SSJ Vegeta is even greater than the gap between SSJ Vegeta and Piccolo (pre Kami) IMO.

Kamiccolo - 2,300,000,000
#17 - 2,200,000,000
#18 - 2,000,000,000
Kamiccolo (weighted) - 2,000,000,000
Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town) - 1,725,000,000
SSJ Vegeta - 1,500,000,000
SSJ Goku - 1,470,000,000
SSJ Trunks - 1,350,000,000
Piccolo (pre Kami) - 1,150,000,000

 

[ahill1]

@Papasmurf : When Goku said that, Imperfect Cell already could have gotten a lot stronger by absorbing peoples.

 

[kriss-]

But the characters know more than you.

Exactly.

Feats are more reliable than statements, characters are fallible, feats are absolute.

But the characters weren't corrected later-on, and their thoughts were still thought of as accurate.

Exactly.

Characters are still fallible. Their statements don't need to be corrected later on if they're not proven to be true in the first place, or the feats disregard their speculative conjecture.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Feats are more reliable than statements, characters are fallible, feats are absolute.

But the characters weren't corrected later-on, and their thoughts were still thought of as accurate.

Exactly.

Characters are still fallible. Their statements don't need to be corrected later on if they're not proven to be true in the first place, or the feats disregard their speculative conjecture.

If they are normally not credible than, yeah I'd agree but these characters know what they are talking about.

Exactly

 

[kriss-]

But the characters weren't corrected later-on, and their thoughts were still thought of as accurate.

Exactly.

Characters are still fallible. Their statements don't need to be corrected later on if they're not proven to be true in the first place, or the feats disregard their speculative conjecture.

If they are normally not credible than, yeah I'd agree but these characters know what they are talking about.

Exactly

Alright, I don't think that was a very convincing argument, lmao. It sounds so... subjective.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Characters are still fallible. Their statements don't need to be corrected later on if they're not proven to be true in the first place, or the feats disregard their speculative conjecture.

If they are normally not credible than, yeah I'd agree but these characters know what they are talking about.

Exactly

Alright, I don't think that was a very convincing argument, lmao. It sounds so... subjective.

Now you know your role, and now you proceed to shut your mouth (plz).

Exactly

 

[kriss-]

If they are normally not credible than, yeah I'd agree but these characters know what they are talking about.

Exactly

Alright, I don't think that was a very convincing argument, lmao. It sounds so... subjective.

Now you know your role, and now you proceed to shut your mouth (plz).

Exactly

No it just wasn't a strong enough argument for me to waste my time commenting on. I'm disdainfully reluctant in doing so.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Alright, I don't think that was a very convincing argument, lmao. It sounds so... subjective.

Now you know your role, and now you proceed to shut your mouth (plz).

Exactly

No it just wasn't a strong enough argument for me to waste my time commenting on. I'm disdainfully reluctant in doing so.

Now you turn that argument of yours sumbeeeeetch-side-way.

Exactly.

 

[kriss-]

Now you know your role, and now you proceed to shut your mouth (plz).

Exactly

No it just wasn't a strong enough argument for me to waste my time commenting on. I'm disdainfully reluctant in doing so.

Now you turn that argument of yours sumbeeeeetch-side-way.

Exactly.

What you said in your argument was entirely subjective and totally biased since you believe it's a fact. There's no quality in that statement for me to waste my time commenting on.

 

[ahill1]

I think Trunks is fairly close to Vegeta. That fight against #18 doesn't have to mean Vegeta was way stronger. The fight is kinda up to interpretation. I'd say statements > feats in this case.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

The last thing stated is Vegeta's abilities are greater than Trunks by Kami.

If they were to fight, Vegeta would likely beat his ass. I don't really think Trunks would put up a good fight.

 

[ahill1]

The last thing stated is Vegeta's abilities are greater than Trunks by Kami.

If they were to fight, Vegeta would likely beat his ass. I don't really think Trunks would put up a good fight.

Trunks could fight fairly well against the Future Androids, so I think he could fight fairly well against Vegeta too.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Trunks can't do anything to them as a Super Saiyan, but apparently can fight them well? Not much sense in what he says.

#17 thinks #18 can handle Trunks with ease alone, so whatever fight he put up couldn't have been anything special.

 

[kriss-]

IMO Trunks is much closer to Piccolo than he is to Vegeta in terms of battle power.

 

[Papasmurf]

@Papasmurf : When Goku said that, Imperfect Cell already could have gotten a lot stronger by absorbing peoples.

Cell had been suppressing his ki, so the last power Goku had to go by was his Gingertown ki. It'd have been more natural for Goku to say Cell's probably gotten stronger than me by now, if it wasn't already the case. Similarly, he only assumed Vegeta'd already surpassed the Super Saiyan wall when he was waiting for him to come out of the Rosat - yet he expressed certainty that Cell was more powerful.

 

[ahill1]

@Papasmurf : When Goku said that, Imperfect Cell already could have gotten a lot stronger by absorbing peoples.

Cell had been suppressing his ki, so the last power Goku had to go by was his Gingertown ki. It'd have been more natural for Goku to say Cell's probably gotten stronger than me by now, if it wasn't already the case. Similarly, he only assumed Vegeta'd already surpassed the Super Saiyan wall when he was waiting for him to come out of the Rosat - yet he expressed certainty that Cell was more powerful.

But him suppressing his ki is irrelevant IMO, since Goku already knew Cell was growing more powerful absorbing humans.

 

[sei'taer]

I really don't understand this argument about vegeta's fight against 18. He hits her exactly one time after they get serious. She completely schools him otherwise. The latter half of the fight when trunks thinks he's holding his own, she is literally just blocking.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

There is none. Piccolo rivals both Androids and Vegeta is outside of that class.