God of Destruction match

[Future Warrior]

@Future Warrior that SSJB = 10 was a brain fart from me. 20 is a much better number.

That's fine. But that already disqualifies the SSJ = 10% thing in the first place, which is my point.

I guess maybe it would fit a bit better if you don't treat the percentage comparisons too strictly and have SSJ like 3-5% instead.

But that's me being considerate. You and me both agree that God being a mere several times boost just doesn't match the portrayal the form had in the Toppo fight.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah in reality God is at least tens of times SSJ3. I wouldn’t mind butchering multipliers because they’re just numbers, but I think it’s heavily implied Goku and Vegeta haven’t improved much besides the new forms.

 

[Papasmurf]

Yeah in reality God is at least tens of times SSJ3. I wouldn’t mind butchering multipliers because they’re just numbers, but I think it’s heavily implied Goku and Vegeta haven’t improved much besides the new forms.

It's really inconsistent in that regard. Gohan being able to not oneshot Goten and Trunks while they are all SSJs suggests they aren't worlds above Boo saga/BoG saga base/SSJ selves, but then we have ToP Freeza being no match for SSJ Caulifla despite being able to dwarf SSJ Gohan and Piccolo in RoF in 1st form, plus Vegetto and Gogeta being at least Blue level in base when in the BoG arc God was above a full power Potara fusion.

I've just given up on scaling Super just like when cringey bullshit happened like Goku suggesting Black wasn't a joke to his God self despite SSJ2 Vegeta being able to dominate SSJ Black, or one zenkai bringing him to Blue level. A story this bad shouldn't be scaled anyways, same reason why I've never in my life made a GT power level list.

 

[Future Warrior]

I mean we have Roshi fighting Jiren so I think it’s clear Super barely gives scaling a second thought.

 

[Papasmurf]

I mean we have Roshi fighting Jiren so I think it’s clear Super barely gives scaling a second thought.

Yeah I've been of that mentality for a while. When Toyo said pre-wish Granolah and Gas were below Namek Freeza (possibly even 1st form Freeza) despite Maki saying pre-wish Gas might've been able to win prior to the wish it became painfully obvious scaling is the least of this series' priorities.

 

[Future Warrior]

Maki saying pre-wish Gas might've been able to win prior to the wish it became painfully obvious scaling is the least of this series' priorities.

I mean you also have to consider that some characters simply love to talk out of their ass. Statements can’t always be trusted

 

[Papasmurf]

I mean you also have to consider that some characters simply love to talk out of their ass. Statements can’t always be trusted

That's true, doesn't make the scaling in this series any better though. There's that debate over Ultimate Gohan vs. CSSJB Goku that's been going on for ages because Kuririn isn't a reliable source vs. people saying he is. At least in Toriyama's manga generally the characters weren't far removed from the word of the author, like how Piccolo, Vegeta and Trunks were all in agreement that SSJ2 Vegeta/Goku were a fixed level, in Super character statements are contradicted on the regular and Toyotaro even said a character's opinion isn't the author's word.

 

[Future Warrior]

I don’t think that’s inherently a bad thing. It makes things less concrete, but it also makes the characters seem less artificial and more like actual people with their own thoughts and opinions.

I think the problem is that he just makes it needlessly confusing, which it is.

I think a lot of times he doesn’t give a fuck about how a character should or shouldn’t perform in a fight with a massive gap, and we need to accept that.

Blue Goku vs Gas/Trunks and Goten vs Hedo androids/Base Goku vs Hit

 

[Papasmurf]

I think it does more harm than good personally. One of my criticisms of the 23rd arc is that statements generally point in the direction of Majunior being unbeatable even before he reveals his full power against Goku, but he has subpar feats against Kuririn and in the earlier half of his fight against Shen, while Shen himself who's had his powers reduced in a human body still tools Yamcha worse than Piccolo beat Kuririn and even holds his own against Majunior (only to then say there's a massive gap between them). Super too often defies the logic of the original series to the point that Cell Max's wings can be ripped off by much, much weaker fighters. I think character statements being in line with the actual powers of the combatants makes more sense in a series where virtually everyone is a martial arts master and/or has Ki sense.

After all, Tenshinhan said he could tell Roshi was a highly skilled fighter just from watching him tool Man-wolf for a few seconds and it's stressed afterward that people like Goku are highly reliable in judging people's powers (other than when he's outmatched against the main villain of the arc).