Gohan in GT

[Yoshi]

Gohan was stronger because he trained according to the GT Files. But logically his Ultimate form can’t get any stronger.

 

[ahill1]

I'd argue that power should be the focus above all else. If a villain shows their power and it's fully acknowledged by the person gauging it, I don't see what more familiarity would be required. I'd need to see something from Goku to suggest he'd deliberately make a comparison that waters down 1 out of 2 of the fighters being compared.

The story had its fair share of moments where Buu referred to Majin Buu as a collective entity. That's perfect for someone as simple as Goku.

Though since Trunks was part of the conversation and iirc he answered that with "I'm getting excited" (not part like Goku was talking to him but Goku made the comment with Trunks and Pan there), wouldn't it flow a little badly when Trunks hadn't knowledge of Bootenks nor Boohan's powers?

 

[ScottyFamalam]

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Base Gohan (Arc Super #17) competed against General Rildo

Being a punching bag isn't competing, no

 

[Spiral-Force]

Though since Trunks was part of the conversation and iirc he answered that with "I'm getting excited" (not part like Goku was talking to him but Goku made the comment with Trunks and Pan there), wouldn't it flow a little badly when Trunks hadn't knowledge of Bootenks nor Boohan's powers?

Don't think it matters much. Goku is firmly above Trunks, didn't need anything near SSJ3 for the fight, yet was still happy to fight Rilldo by the looks of it. Early-mid GT was quite scarce of fighters of any worth, so when someone popped up that was decent and wouldn't run away (like Ledgic), they could have some fun.

 

[Dagon]

Piccolo's comment about SSJ Baby-Gohan's power is probably meant to be for Gohan overall, and I would be inclined to say base Gohan in GT > Ultiamte Gohan in Z because of that. There is the slight chance that it's just from Gohan using SSJ power beyond Ultimate Gohan in Z even if his base isn't as strong as Z Ultimate Gohan.

Gohan going toe to toe against Rilldo happened a year later, so it is not necessarily indicative of Gohan's strength in the Baby saga. A lot of people retroactively apply that to the Baby Saga which I think is not necessarily the case.

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

Was Gohan as strong as his Ultimate self from the battle vs Super Boo? Or did he lose power?

Why?

I haven't seen this thread for a while

 

[Boo Brand Milk]

In GTverse they forgot Ultimate ever existed

 

[ahill1]

Don't think it matters much. Goku is firmly above Trunks, didn't need anything near SSJ3 for the fight, yet was still happy to fight Rilldo by the looks of it. Early-mid GT was quite scarce of fighters of any worth, so when someone popped up that was decent and wouldn't run away (like Ledgic), they could have some fun.

My bad, I meant more in the sense of it being weird for Goku to comment to Trunks and Pan if it's a Boo they never saw.

 

[ahill1]

In GTverse they forgot Ultimate ever existed

Yeah I don't think they had an Ultimate concept by then. Or maybe they intended that as base Gohan and just didn't refer to it as Ultimate since the manga did treat it as a permanent transformation at least, far from the typical ones, whereas it seems more like Super thing for Gohan to drop out of Ultimate and pop into it again at will... So they didn't even see it like a state/form.

 

[Spiral-Force]

My bad, I meant more in the sense of it being weird for Goku to comment to Trunks and Pan if it's a Boo they never saw.

It's worth noting that Goku wasn't speaking directly at Trunks or Pan, he was eyeing Rilldo. Goku was basically thinking out loud it seems. Do you still find that part of the scene strange?

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Yeah I don't think they had an Ultimate concept by then. Or maybe they intended that as base Gohan and just didn't refer to it as Ultimate since the manga did treat it as a permanent transformation at least, far from the typical ones, whereas it seems more like Super thing for Gohan to drop out of Ultimate and pop into it again at will... So they didn't even see it like a state/form.

Gohan uses Mystic as a transformation in Movie 13.
It's called "Mightiest of Warriors" and "Super Gohan" in the Daizenshuu.
Weekly Jump refered to it as "Gohan's ultimate power-up", which is most likely the origin of the name "Ultimate Gohan".
Atsushi Maekawa, GT's main writer, worked on all the episodes that Mystic Gohan appeared in during the Boo arc.

They never forgot what Mystic was. They just had him turn Super Saiyan because they felt it looked cooler.

 

[ScottyFamalam]

Gohan's profile:
真面目で知性派! パンのパパだ!!
悟空とチチの間に生まれた。真面目かっ理性的な性格で、子供の頃からの夢だった学者になっている。悟空譲りの力は健在で、ピンチの時にはサイヤ人パワーを発揮する!
Serious and intelligent! He's Pan's papa!!
Born between Goku and Chichi. He has a serious, rational personality and has dreamed of becoming a scholar since he was a child. The power inherited from Goku is still alive and well, and in times of crisis, he can demonstrate Saiyan power!

Goten's profile:
ノリ は 軽いけど 父親讓り の パワー の持ち主!
悟空ファミリーの次男。子供の頃は悟空そっくりだったが、今ではすっかり都会派の青年に成長。お嬢様・パレスちゃんに夢中のあまり、最近ではめっきり修行不足らしい!？
Although he has a frivolous attitude, he inherited his father's power!
The second son of the Goku family. When he was a child, he looked exactly like Goku, but now he has grown into a city-oriented young man. He's so obsessed with his young lady, Palace-chan, that he seems to be lacking in training lately!?

This book seems to suggest that Gohan stayed in shape and kept training ("[his] power inherited from Goku is still alive and well"), whereas it explicitly states that Goten stopped training ("he seems to be lacking in training lately"). The Perfect Files ("he hasn’t neglected his training") and Vegeta's line in episode 2 (in which he implies Gohan hasn't been slacking off from training like Goten and Trunks have) also backs up the notion that Gohan kept training.

However, this same book contains the following statement from Atsushi Maekawa:

Translations | Dragon Ball GT Dragon Book: Dragon Ball Q - Atsushi Maekawa Story Q&A

English translation of the Atsushi Maekawa Story Q&A from the 2006 Dragon Ball GT Dragon Box DVD release in Japan

www.kanzenshuu.com

For instance, in Gohan’s case, there was apparently so much as an “Ultimate Gohan” concept in Dragon Ball Z, where he was a super-warrior with might surpassing Goku, but in GT, he’s a scholar who’s given up fighting almost entirely.

Gohan training is probably treated separately from him fighting; most likely, he kept up his training despite not fighting during the 15 years of peace following Boo's defeat. Maekawa later says, "around the time of the Super Seventeen arc, [Gohan] suddenly returned as a super-warrior". In actuality, Gohan started fighting again during the Baby arc and his role in the Super Seventeen arc wasn't any different. So, "he returned as a super-warrior" just means "he started fighting again". However, although Gohan may have kept training in GT, Maekawa's comment suggests that he's no longer Mystic, as he speaks about the form in the past tense.

Overall, I think he kept training enough to stay in shape and not be any weaker than he was in the Boo arc, but not enough to be anywhere near Goku, who rigorously kept training in the 15 years that had passed since then. As for whether or not he kept Mystic, I believe he lost access to the form itself due to not training quite enough, but can still access the same amount of power by transforming into a Super Saiyan (logically, SS2, but that form is basically non-existent in GT). This is only my speculation, though. Toei probably just made him turn Super Saiyan because they felt it looked cooler without caring about the logic behind it. GT's a mess.

(Weirdly, Trunks isn't said to have stopped training in his profile):

冷静沈着な頭脳派ファイターだ!
ベジータの格闘センスとブルマの頭脳を受け継いだ、超エリート戦士。カプセルコーポレーションの社長業に忙しい毎日だったが、べジータの命令でドラゴンボール探しに出る!
A levelheaded, intelligent fighter!
A super-elite warrior who inherited Vegeta's fighting sense and Bulma's brainpower. He was busy with his duties as the president of Capsule Corporation, but at Vegeta's orders, he set out to find the Dragon Balls!

 

[ahill1]

It's worth noting that Goku wasn't speaking directly at Trunks or Pan, he was eyeing Rilldo. Goku was basically thinking out loud it seems. Do you still find that part of the scene strange?

Yeah I agree with you.

 

[Dagon]

It's worth noting that Goku wasn't speaking directly at Trunks or Pan, he was eyeing Rilldo. Goku was basically thinking out loud it seems. Do you still find that part of the scene strange?

I think Goku was talking to Pan and Trunks, he just didn't turn to speak to them.

 

[Spiral-Force]

@Dagon Under that view, do you consider it out-of-place going off of what ahill said?