GokhanDBZfan said:
None of that makes Sick Goku stronger than Yadrat Goku, though.
He specifically tells Trunks he has something to work towards, and he's going to train very hard for the next 3 yrs. It just wouldn't make
any sense for him to be the exact same guy he was when he met Trunks. The same Trunks said he could barely hold his own against one Android, while Goku is perfectly willing to take on both alone. That actually would be enough to put him way above Trunks from back then.
All it means is Sick Goku is way stronger than Tenshinhan and suppressed Piccolo, which was obvious.
All we really know is that he's not fighting at his best. That in itself doesn't mean he's particularly weak--just not where he should be.
If Tien can be considered a clueless idiot, then there's little reason to believe his assessment on the Saiyans needs to be an absolute fact.
Kaioshin is shown to have forgotten about the Saiyan's true abilities though and is recalling them after they called Dabra weak.
He also implies Gohan wasn't at full power when he stopped him.
It was still a stupid comment no matter how you look at it. Questioning if Super Saiyans are strong after admitting you're not sure if you can actually stop the one in front of you is just....
Maybe, but this is the same guy, who thought he didn't need the Z-Fighters' help even after 18 tanked his punch to the gut.
When you look at how quickly they were all swept aside while he continued to fight with a broken arm, what he said actually has merit.
Judging by the short amount of time it takes 18 to to drain his stamina(in comparison with Kamiccolo's fight with 17), I don't think he was losing stamina at a slow rate. Because he is appeared to be fighting evenly with the Android 18.Notice he never calls Vegeta's ki being amazing.
Highlighting someone's Chi isn't the
only way compliment their power. Trunks said Goku was greater than all of the stories he's heard about him. That's an acknowledgement of Goku's power without commenting on his Chi. Tien says Super Saiyan Goku had an incredible Chi, then later says Piccolo and Vegeta both powered-up incredibly without never commenting on either's Chi. I doubt his quote on Goku is more significant because he mentioned his Chi. A compliment to ones power is a compliment.
Tenshinhan's statement regarding Trunks' placement though is supported by Kami, by Vegeta's inability to shrug off Trunks and by the power of a Super Saiyan being considered a set tier of power.
Thing is, Kami and Tien's quote differs because Tien doesn't believe Goku would be any different than Trunks or Vegeta, whereas Kami makes it a point to highlight Vegeta's superiority to Trunks. When going by that, we can deduce that Vegeta is noticeably ahead of Trunks. To Krillin and Tien, Super Saiyans were the greatest things ever. Their reactions to them being easily defeated aren't really that surprising.
That actually can be considered a possibility, as, unlike what that manga panel might look like, Trunks was said to be strong enough to surpass Gohan in few months, which also supports Trunks not being the type of guy to train hard after Gohan's death.
Gohan was under the impression that he'd continue training Trunks when he said he might surpass him in a few months. Once it became clear that his battle with the Androids
might be his final one, he changed his mind about Trunks:
Gohan: “If you died, then there wouldn’t be any more warriors to save the Earth…
You’re the last warrior with the potential to be capable of defeating those androids after a few years…”
Keep in mind that this is the same Gohan who believed he improved enough to beat #17 on his own at the very least.
Trunks definitely continued to train hard after Gohan was gone. That explains why he was so sure of himself after doing it for 3 whole yrs.
It doesn't have to be an indication of that, especially when Tenshinhan acts like a clueless idiot.
Well, like I said, if he's clueless, then he also apparently sucks at comparing the Super Saiyans. Kami makes it clear who's without a doubt the strongest between Vegeta and Trunks.
It wouldn't be pointless, because Sick Goku is still weaker than what he should be at full power.
That's all we're told. Super Saiyan Goku can
still be powerful even though he's not at his best. That's my point. H
The characters are all banking on Goku being alive and the only Super Saiyan, while the supposed years of training are disregarded.
That still requires him to be better than he was from 3 yrs before. If he didn't change that much from the training, then it was pointless for him.
Only Vegeta becoming a Super Saiyan and Piccolo powering up is brought up later, but nothing else.
Considering those were the only things worth mentioning, I can understand why.
Krillin:''The guy from the future said we fought the androids without Goku and all of us got killed''.
To which Piccolo responds:''The timing on Goku's virus is off, thus things might not go the same way as he said.''
and not:''We trained hard for many years for this, I am confident in my power.''
Things don't have to be a stated a certain way when the context can convey the message. The only way they wouldn't be killed is if they're strong enough to prevent it. Piccolo took Gero's eye lasers like it was nothing and said the attack wasn't enough to stop him. While he'd
likely assume that wasn't his full-power, he'd be able to gauge his power to an extent to know he's certainly not out of his league. There's literally no other way they wouldn't get picked off by the Androids unless the Androids decided not to do it for some reason. If anything, this goes along with what Piccolo later said to Gero perfectly.
I brought this up before, but against Dr.Gero, Piccolo says their lack of information on the Super Saiyan form will cost them victory and not the Z-Fighters' years of training, which contradicts Piccolo having any high expectations of the androids' power like SSJ Trunks<the androids.
Yeah, Piccolo said that. Piccolo wasn't questioning the Androids power, just their shit calculations. He
couldn't possibly know anything about their power outside of what he's been told. Anything more, and you end up with Piccolo coming up with his own scenario (though to be fair, he was thinking of the Androids potentially hiding if they started getting their asses handed to them) of what may or may not transpire. It doesn't make any sense and creates unnecessary confusion. Gero told Goku the level of power was a surprise, but not to a point where they couldn't handle it. Things only began to change when Piccolo realized the timing of Goku's virus was different.
Before he was knocked down by Gero's eye lasers, there was nothing to base the Androids power on outside of what Trunks said. Super Saiyan itself wouldn't have decided the victory. A strong Super Saiyan Goku would've.
Goku had no reason to not be confident, because he was a Super Saiyan among them and Trunks didn't explictly say he was much weaker than one android alone.
Trunks pretty much says taking on one Android is a handful, yet Goku is willing to fight both of them without any help. Goku has to be way above Trunks for that to even be considered, or it just makes Goku look like an overconfident moron.
It doesn't mean it's the only way of training, but Goku pretty much says, that unless he finds a way to go beyond Super Saiyan, he won't grow any stronger. The same concept is mentioned many times in that portion of the story.
Sparring in general is a good way of training. Goku asked Piccolo to train with him and Gohan because he wanted to spar. For him to suggest that method of training knowing Piccolo wasn't on his level, he had to have thought he could still improve enough to make a difference in 3 yrs. Going beyond Super Saiyan became a thing when they realized Super Saiyan was useless against the Androids. Before the Androids arrived, Goku most likely assumed normal sparring would give him the necessary gains to take them on without an issue.
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