Goku, Trunks and Piccolo's power in the Android saga

[ahill1]

@GokhanDBZfan

It's a possible explanation for Gero being weaker than they thought.

It's not, because, like I said, if things were this way, Piccolo would've said:

"It seems you haven't absorbed enough power to reach the level we thought you would be”

If things were this way, then the reason he's won is because 20 hasn't absorbed enough power, not because he's possibly too strong. He (like everyone else) was training and improving themselves to face opponents > Trunks, so he cannot possibly have grown too strong unless he is also above Trunks. It would make zero sense for him to bring up the possibility that he's grown too strong if he's only grown too strong for opponents that are nowhere near his expectations.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

That's because that staement isn't a comparison of his strength with Trunks', it's just him saying the timeline has been altered, for one reason or another.
The ''we'' in that statement reffers to all of those killed by the androids, so he's speaking from a general perspective.
I'll just quote Voice_of_Reason for this, since he could formulate this argument better:

Spoiler

The only idea revealed to be going through his head at the time is the sheer fact they were all meant to be killed by them. There's no necessity for him to think of something that Trunks never directly stated himself, or focus solely on Ki/energy size, when there are other factors that could've impacted Trunks' power to defeat them. One of the most significant differences is that it is two-on-one, while in the Present they were fortunate to fight the androids individually, with support from allies and items like senzu beans. Their power is also very unique from any opponent they'd faced before as they cannot rely on Ki to track their movements, they cannot use Ki attacks as they would be absorbed, and they also absorb Ki through physical contact (of course, the real androids are different but Piccolo is unaware of that at this point). Focusing solely on battle power is a characteristic of Freeza's empire, not of the Earthlings, and it was ultimately demonstrated to be a flawed outlook. Against the initial androids it's even less likely they'd be thinking too deeply about Ki on the battlefield since they don't give off any that could be sensed.

You also take for granted that they would have an impeccable, comprehensive awareness for power under any circumstance. Yet we are shown in times of high emotional investment, they can appear very clueless: Tenshinhan acts as if it's the first time he's ever seen Super Saiyan when Goku transforms against the androids, Piccolo believes Gohan is dead after Cell's attack when according to Goku his Ki never dropped at all, and when Cell reveals his full power no one seems to point out initially that it's still utterly inferior to SSJ2 Gohan's. I disagree that strength strictly translates to power level and that the Earthlings would view things in the same way you do, and it so happens to be in the battle with Raditz that Goku expresses such:

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Tenshinhan forgot a thing like Super Saiyan even existed in that scene, so I don't take that statement to mean anything other than him being a clueless dunce.

I'm talking about when Goku was actually beating #19 down. Tien never saw anything close to that display during his finger exchange with Trunks. I don't see how you're fine regarding him as a clueless dunce, yet take his quote about the Super Saiyans as an absolute fact that they need to be close.

The thing is, Freeza's power is never stated to have been surpressed. The wording of that quote from Gohan implies they were sensing his standing ki and not suppressed ki.

No, it isn't:

Gohan: “This isn’t it…he gets much, much stronger…!”

Not really, no. Gohan's saying Freeza can get much stronger than what they're sensing because he can power-up. What his means is Mecha Freeza was displaying less power than what Gohan sensed on Namek.

Their reactions(including Goku's) to Trunks' feat afterwards would imply he sliced Freeza at his maximum, as would the general purpose of brining him back to life.

Because no one outside of a Super Saiyan was capable of handling Freeza and Cold when they arrived on Earth. That doesn't mean this is carried over to the following saga where Piccolo is fighting at a level only a Super Saiyan should be able to fight at.

 

[GokhanDBZfan]

Because he behaves as if it's the first time he is seeing a Super Saiyan.
I don't only go by that quote alone.

He GETS much, much stronger, not he CAN get much stronger.

Kami's statement in the following arc. would however imply the Freeza Trunks sliced is a bigger deal than Piccolo.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

That doesn't change the fact that he's still shitting himself over the power he's sensing from Goku. There's absolutely no reason to have Goku below Freeza based on that alone.

Same thing, really. Freeza gets much stronger by doing a power-up. He doesn't walk around at full-power. This is semantics.

No. It implies that the guy who sliced Freeza was tossed aside rather easily. Krillin says that Cell is more powerful than Freeza even though there are several beings who already make Freeza look like nothing. What is this supposed to mean again?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, gotta agree with EV here. I really don't think Kami bringing up Freeza has anything to do with Piccolo. Later Kuririn also brought Freeza in front of Goku and freaking Kamiccolo:

Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P4.5-6
Kuririn: “Goku, tell us—This thing’s even more terrible than Freeza. Are you scared by that? Or excited?”
Goku: “…Both…”


“It seems that in the original history, we were supposed to be wiped out by you…But it looks like the future has changed somehow….Was it that you weren’t as strong as we thought?...Or have we grown too strong?...”

Piccolo is bringing up two possible reasons. And again, if he is even considering the hypothesis of "them just growing too strong" it must mean it's true to a certain extent. If 'murdring Freeza Trunks' > Piccolo > 20 was even remotely true, there would be absolutely no reason for even consider the possibility of them just being too strong. The timeline has been altered because 20 wasn't one of the real Androids OR because they grew too strong.

Sure, I can't deny Kuririn wasn't including himself, but I don't think the two situations are comparable. Just because the same word was used in both instances doesn't mean that they imply something similar, mainly when Piccolo considered them just "growing too strong". Besides this, as EV already pointed out, Tenshinhan includes only Vegeta and Piccolo in the "powering up so extraodinarily" statement.