Goku (vs Freeza)

[ahill1]

Discussing with P is cool. Only him has a percent gap/fight breakdown mind, which is the most important aspect of the series.

 

[SSJ2]

 

[Kyo]

> why are you touching yourself
> because of this

oh my

 

[SSJ2]

 

[p123]

Well SSJ2, you might end up with Goku being like double Vegeta should that be the case of every increasing power.

You would end up with this...

Freeza ( No Hands ) > Freeza ( Warm Up vs Goku ) > Freeza ( Initial vs Goku ) = Freeza Kicking Blast > Freeza Schooling Vegeta > Initial Freeza

That would be five power ups. I think this is plausible, but I generally see Freeza being around the same general level of power and just altering his effort. If you see how he is initially vs Vegeta and Goku, he is extremely nonchalant, very lazy like. Then he puts in more effort, but is clearly not going all out during the middle of the fights with Vegeta and Goku. Then the deflection and the no hands do we only see his rage, which is brought upon through his effort.

So that's what I see overall. I could be swayed with proper evidence, but I just don't see it personally. This is one of the most underrated parts of the series. That 3 million power level by the guide books makes everyone turn off their critical thinking here.

I always enjoy discussing with you as well ahill, you, withheld, Vic and I all are very technical in terms of a numeric standpoint. So we bond through that.

 

[SSJ2]

Without tackling your post yet, is there really a problem with Goku being 2x Vegeta when it's said and done? I don't view that as being contradictory.

 

[p123]

No, definitely not, it's just considered offensive to the nerfers who think DB entire power spectrum should fall in between a few hundred points.

 

[ahill1]

Considering Goku, when just warming up, could fight fairly well with the same Freeza who moved so fast Vegeta couldn't even see him, 2x seems like a good gap.

P, did Freeza's power increase when he stated he raised his speed vs Vegeta?

 

[p123]

Yea, I always think this whole concept of raising speed and not power to be a little crazy. They raise power and we assume speed goes along with it, why not the other way around, seems odd. People aren't considering the context, when speed is the issue, as is with the cases of Freeza and Cell, it would be very strange to bring up altering power, when speed is what is problematic.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Nowadays, i have...

Unweighted Namiccolo: 1.500.000

3rd Form Freeza
-initial: 1.800.000 (used to ragdoll Piccolo)
-max: 2.250.000 (used to counter Gohan's blast)

Vegeta/Initial 4th Form Freeza: 3.000.000

Vegeta (planet buster): 6.000.000

Initial Goku/Warm Up Freeza: 4.500.000

Goku (full base): 6.000.000

Freeza (max effort pre 50%): 6.750.000 (used to deflect Vegeta's blast and to fight Goku seriously)

 

[freezamite]

SSJ Goku was at around 3.000.000 in the manga, and using his KKx10 as well.
So at that point in the series the strength was:
Goku at around 300.000 (3.000.000 with KKx10 that he was already using when he started to fight Freezer) and Freezer a bit above 3.000.000 at his 25% (he was a bit below that when fighting Vegeta).

 

[p123]

I don't think he has to raise his power to counter Gohan's blast, but that's interesting you bring that up. Can you lay out some evidence and go point by point why you think that.

 

[Kyo]

No sorry

 

[freezamite]

Wow I didn't know the manga was banned when it comes to power level discussions because otherwise I can't understand the negative vote...

 

[p123]

Goku's 3 million number is not from the manga though, someone just made that garbage up and people trumpeted it like it's fact. ( It's not )

 

[freezamite]

Goku's 3 million number is not from the manga though, someone just made that garbage up and people trumpeted it like it's fact. ( It's not )

Goku's SSJ being around 3 million is 100% from the manga. Cell absorbed "hundreds of thousands of humans" to go from < SSJ Vegeta to >>> Fused Piccolo.
At an average of 2-3 units per human (5 was a male farmer, but it's obvious that kids, old people, ill people or people that didn't have a physical work were much weaker) that's a 1.000.000 in PL increase at best.
If a 10% difference in power means complete dominance of the fight by the stronger character (Gohan vs Raditz, Vegeta vs Dodoria or Goku vs Vegeta confirm that with numbers) then that means that this 1.000.000 PL was at the very minimum a 25-30% of (fused) Piccolo's strength.

We all know that (untrained) SSJ goku was below fused Piccolo (not by a huge margin, but still a noticeable one) so SSJ Goku's power being around 3.000.000 (a bit lower in my opinion) is a pretty good approximation considering the data we have.

 

[SSJ2]

Bravo

 

[p123]

Lol

 

[freezamite]

Bravo

Lol

Well, if you don't like what's written in the manga you can always stick with the anime. But in the manga those where the numbers unlike suddenly every random human becomes stronger than Mutenroshi LoL

Do you have a single number or data given in the manga that contradicts untrained SSJ Goku's PL being 3.000.000? Because I don't think so...

 

[p123]

HAHAHAHAH I think we found our new Tosh!