Goku's gap over Vegeta

[Fantastische Hure]

On Namek:

Goku >> Goku (powered-up) >> Goku (Initial) >>> Vegeta (post-Zenkai)

 

[Pyro]

Where are you getting Goku's power-ups from?

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Where are you getting Goku's power-ups from?

Initially Freeza says to Goku "warm-up is over" or something like that and Goku says "yup". Then after that Freeza says "even-though you said you wouldn't hold-back anymore, you still have a considerable amount of power left" or something like that. I can show you the quotes it you want.

 

[Future Warrior]

I'd say at least 1.5x is solid.

@Kamikaze Pyro Goku was said to be holding back at the beginning of their fight

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I'd say at least 1.5x is solid.

@Kamikaze Pyro Goku was said to be holding back at the beginning of their fight

With Goku holding-back and Freeza being able to kick-back Vegeta's strongest offence?

 

[Future Warrior]

I'd say at least 1.5x is solid.

@Kamikaze Pyro Goku was said to be holding back at the beginning of their fight

With Goku holding-back and Freeza being able to kick-back Vegeta's strongest offence?

I guess it could be more

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I think the considerable power was supposed to be the Kaio-Ken. Freeza can't sense, but he had a feeling Goku was a lot stronger than he was letting on. Goku was a bit surprised that his kick did nothing to Freeza, so I find it unlikely he was holding-back that much. When Freeza decided to use no hands, we see Goku attack with an aura, so I guess he was at full-power there.

 

[Pyro]

It was the Kaio-ken Goku was holding back. He even starts using it after he says the jig is up.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah, I think when Freeza starts fighting Goku with no hands is when Goku starts using full-power, since there's no more statements indicating him holding-back afterward.

The Kaio-Ken could also be meant since Freeza estimated 50% of his power could easily defeat Goku, which would be over-kill for just normal Goku.

 

[Future Warrior]

Chapter: 310 (DBZ 116), P14.1-2
Context: after fighting with Goku for some time
Freeza: “I’m starting to feel like that’s enough warming up…”
Goku: “Me too”.

Then proceeds to take off his weights and still fights without the Kaioken.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Yeah, and he doesn't immediately use the Kaio-Ken after Freeza says that he could easily win with only 50% of his power.

 

[Tapion]

So basically, the zenkai wasn't 33x, it was more like 66x.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

So basically, the zenkai wasn't 33x, it was more like 66x.

If you go by Daizenshuu numbers that is.

Vegeta is also >>> 3rd Form Freeza.

 

[sei'taer]

When go actually uses the kaioken is pretty inconsistently shown in order to hide that goku was already using.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

When go actually uses the kaioken is pretty inconsistently shown in order to hide that goku was already using.

True, but I think he started using it some point mid-getting owned, since why would he rush at Freeza with a Kaio-Ken when he just called it a bluff?

 

[Diamond Ryan]

I think Goku was at full power when Freeza started using no hands, because he was shown flying at Freeza with an aura. I personally have the gap between Vegeta and Goku at 2x.

@Future Warrior Weren't the clothes given to him by Kaio unweighted?

 

[Pyro]

Nah. I think he was at full power the whole time.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Nah. I think he was at full power the whole time.

Even at the beginning of the fight, or do you mean once he started to fight Freeza who decided not to use his hands?

 

[ahill1]

Yeah, Goku and Freeza were initially warming up in the fight. After it, Goku used his full power in base against Freeza without hands, that wasn't the Kaioken, at least according to the full colors.

Freeza (w/o hands) > Goku base (full power) > Freeza (warming up) >= Goku (warming up) >>> Vegeta (Final Zenkai) >>> 3rd form Freeza

The gaps are huge. In numbers:

3rd form Freeza 2,250,000
Vegeta final Zenkai 3,375,000
Freeza initial 3,375,000
Goku base warming up 5,000,000
Freeza warming up 5,300,000
Goku base full power 7,000,000
Freeza (w/o hands) 7,700,000

So around a 2x gap.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

So does most everyone here think Freeza was referring to Kaio-Ken in the 2nd statement? I don't know, even-though since Goku does seem a bit worried when Freeza said 50% could defeat him easily, you could say that's evidence that he meant Kaio-Ken.