Goku's gap over Vegeta

[sei'taer]

Yeah, furiza says that'll do for a warm up after goku escapes his blast, and goku replies he'll get serious too. It's at that point he manifests an aura, but not a kaio-ken aura.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

I remember when I thought it was a basic Kaio-Ken aura back in the day. Glad the color version of the Manga cleared things up.

 

[Pyro]

I thought it was a Kaio-ken aura when he flew at Freeza, but I guess not. Kind of makes things easier then.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Vegeta is at 3 million. Freeza's power (pre 50%) varies between 3m-12m depending on his effort.
-His minimal effort, which is what he kills Dende with and makes Vegeta think he has a chance, is at 3m.
-When he speedblitzes Vegeta, he's at like 4m.
-When Vegeta fires his ultra amplified blast, Freeza momentarily goes max effort (12m) or at least close to it
and deflects it.
-When Goku shows up, Freeza thinks he's a weakling, so he starts with the minimal 3m effort. Goku deflects
multiple death beams which reminds of SSJ Goku's feat of dodging multiple death beams from 50% Freeza.
Therefore, the gap Minimal Freeza/Base Goku is about the same as 50% Freeza/SSJ Goku (about 2x), which
means Base Goku is 6m.
-When they decide to get serious, Goku is shown with kaioken aura for the first time. Therefore, at this point,
Freeza is at the max 12m effort and Goku uses 2x Kaioken (invisible for the greatest part of the fight).

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Vegeta is at 3 million. Freeza's power (pre 50%) varies between 3m-12m depending on his effort.
-His minimal effort, which is what he kills Dende with and makes Vegeta think he has a chance, is at 3m.
-When he speedblitzes Vegeta, he's at like 4m.
-When Vegeta fires his ultra amplified blast, Freeza momentarily goes max effort (12m) or at least close to it
and deflects it.
-When Goku shows up, Freeza thinks he's a weakling, so he starts with the minimal 3m effort. Goku deflects
multiple death beams which reminds of SSJ Goku's feat of dodging multiple death beams from 50% Freeza.
Therefore, the gap Minimal Freeza/Base Goku is about the same as 50% Freeza/SSJ Goku (about 2x), which
means Base Goku is 6m.
-When they decide to get serious, Goku is shown with kaioken aura for the first time. Therefore, at this point,
Freeza is at the max 12m effort and Goku uses 2x Kaioken (invisible for the greatest part of the fight).

Goku wasn't using Kaio-Ken. That's been established.

 

[sei'taer]

I thought it was a Kaio-ken aura when he flew at Freeza, but I guess not. Kind of makes things easier then.

Yeah it sure does. That whole sequence caused us fits back in the day because he seemed to be using kaio-ken the whole time. Or at least part of the time.

Still that was one of my favorite pojo debates.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I thought it was a Kaio-ken aura when he flew at Freeza, but I guess not. Kind of makes things easier then.

Yeah it sure does. That whole sequence caused us fits back in the day because he seemed to be using kaio-ken the whole time. Or at least part of the time.

Still that was one of my favorite pojo debates.

I wasn't there.

 

[sei'taer]

It was a long time ago.

Back when pojo was a good forum.

 

[ahill1]

I think it Freeza's final form levels (pre 50%) go more or less like withheld said, but I don't think he used his true initial level to bounce back Vegeta's super powerful blast, that was just a level used to match his speed up. His true initial level was the one used when he fought without using hands against full power base Goku.

~Freeza initial level is around post Zenkai Vegeta's level, with this latter still being a bit sure of his victory.
~Freeza increases his speed to dodge Vegeta, completely speed blitzing him and then increases his power to match his speed when bouncing Vegeta's strongest attack back.
~Freeza goes back to his initial level (the one around post Zenkai Vegeta) when underestimating Goku.
~Then Freeza power ups to the level he used to tool Vegeta and has a nice warm up against Goku, who is only warming up as well.
~Then Freeza uses his initial full level to fight base Goku full power.

Let's say Vegeta's post Zenkai power level must be at least 3 millions, based on his large superiority over 3rd form Freeza, who is unlikely to be below 2 millions:

Freeza initial 3,000,000
Vegeta Zenkai 3,000,000
Freeza (speed up and power up, kicking Vegeta's blast) 4,800,000
Goku base (initial, warming up) 4,500,000
Freeza (underestimating Goku) 3,000,000
Freeza (warm up,vs Goku) 4,800,000
Goku base (full power, warm up over) 6,000,000
Freeza (w/o hands, true initial level) 6,600,000

That's the absolute minimum imo. You could bloat up things even more if you assume Freeza didn't power down when attacking base Goku and that was the level he used to tool Vegeta:

Freeza initial 3,000,000
Vegeta Zenkai 3,000,000
Freeza (tooling Vegeta) 4,800,000
Goku base (warming up) 6,000,000
Freeza (warming up, vs Goku) 6,400,000
Goku base (full power) 8,000,000
Freeza (w/o hands) 9,000,000

 

[withheldforprivacy]

Vegeta is at 3 million. Freeza's power (pre 50%) varies between 3m-12m depending on his effort.
-His minimal effort, which is what he kills Dende with and makes Vegeta think he has a chance, is at 3m.
-When he speedblitzes Vegeta, he's at like 4m.
-When Vegeta fires his ultra amplified blast, Freeza momentarily goes max effort (12m) or at least close to it
and deflects it.
-When Goku shows up, Freeza thinks he's a weakling, so he starts with the minimal 3m effort. Goku deflects
multiple death beams which reminds of SSJ Goku's feat of dodging multiple death beams from 50% Freeza.
Therefore, the gap Minimal Freeza/Base Goku is about the same as 50% Freeza/SSJ Goku (about 2x), which
means Base Goku is 6m.
-When they decide to get serious, Goku is shown with kaioken aura for the first time. Therefore, at this point,
Freeza is at the max 12m effort and Goku uses 2x Kaioken (invisible for the greatest part of the fight).

Goku wasn't using Kaio-Ken. That's been established.

Does AT have anything to do with these colors?

 

[Papasmurf]

The colors are done by Shueisha, but judging by the fact that a wrongfully colored chapter of Naruto was redone, the creator probably has the say to order chapters redone if he isn't happy with the result.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I don't think AT bothered that much with this detail with kaioken.

 

[Future Warrior]

I think Goku was at full power when Freeza started using no hands, because he was shown flying at Freeza with an aura. I personally have the gap between Vegeta and Goku at 2x.

@Future Warrior Weren't the clothes given to him by Kaio unweighted?

Yes, I believe so.

 

[Future Warrior]

Chapter: 310 (DBZ 116), P14.1-2
Context: after fighting with Goku for some time
Freeza: “I’m starting to feel like that’s enough warming up…”
Goku: “Me too”.

Then proceeds to take off his weights and still fights without the Kaioken.

Goku never wore weights when fighting Freeza. He merely took off his outer shirt, which wasn't weighted in the first place.

I remember in the Anime Tenshinhan said Goku was weighted during their fight and he should be able to hold the advantage without them, but Kaio-sama states they aren't that heavy.

 

[ahill1]

Come on withheld, let's accept Goku didn't use his full power in base until fighting Freeza without hands, since it turns the 3 millions number an impossibility and piss off people who follow the guidebook (*cough cough Kabroom).