GreatSaiyaman123's New Battle Power List

[GreatSaiyaman123]

@GreatSaiyaman123 do you still believe in that nonsense about limits and Super Saiyan walls being unsurpassable?

A quick glance through my list can tell you that.

I mean limits still exist, characters talk about it all the time, but it’s something temporary at best.

 

[SSJ2]

That's why I was asking, because I noticed you had EoZ Vegeta >> Majin Vegeta. On that note, why do you have post-Majin Vegeta being weaker than Majin Vegeta? Absolutely not implied.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Back when I made the list I used to think the Majin boost was lost when the spell was broken. Not so sure nowadays though, could go either way.

 

[SSJ2]

No it can't.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The potential unlock was part of his Babidi’s spell, it’s not just a unlock in itself like Guru’s. If one goes away, then so does the other.

Vegeta’s fight with Pure Boo is also WAY more one sided than his with Fatty. He even complains his blows are too heavy, despite already having acknowledged Boo’s strength. Could be the lack of Majin durability, but if thay goes away why not the power too?

 

[Papasmurf]

Galu noted that Porunga didn't fully restore Vegeta's Ki when he was revived, if Vegeta lost the potential unlock after death (which would be odd when no other potential unlock was lost after death before and after), it'd make sense for Galu to use it as a reason why letting Vegeta fight Boo for at least a minute was dangerous.

 

[SSJ2]

The mind control and the potential spell were 2 completely separate things.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Galu noted that Porunga didn't fully restore Vegeta's Ki when he was revived, if Vegeta lost the potential unlock after death (which would be odd when no other potential unlock was lost after death before and after), it'd make sense for Galu to use it as a reason why letting Vegeta fight Boo for at least a minute was dangerous.

Vegeta seemingly couldn’t even go SSJ after being revived, that’s something way more noteworthy than not having the 1.25x boost from Babidi.

The mind control and the potential spell were 2 completely separate things.

Even if they’re 2 different things, they’re not completely separate since they come from the same source: Babidi’s magic.

 

[Papasmurf]

The mind control and the potential spell were 2 completely separate things.

Plus Rou Dai Kaioshit calls them rivals as though there's no great difference between them beyond SSJ3. Prior to the potential unlock Vegeta was intimidated just by Goku flashing SSJ2 against Yakon.

Vegeta seemingly couldn’t even go SSJ after being revived, that’s something way more noteworthy than not having the 1.25x boost from Babidi.

1.25x is still about equivalent to the difference between Cui and pre-Zarbon Vegeta. Don't see why something that would heavily impact performance in a world where being 2x stronger makes you the greater fighter by leaps and bounds and worlds and realms wouldn't be noted. Imagine SSJ3 Galu lost 30% of his Ki and got his ass whooped by Boo as a result, would it not be noted?

View attachment 636

Even if they’re 2 different things, they’re not completely separate since they come from the same source: Babidi’s magic.

We see in the manga itself that the unlocking of potential took place after Vegeta's mind was put under Babidi's spell. And every other potential unlock from the God Water to Molestation Master Guru and Rou Dai Kaioshin was retained after revival, don't see why this would be different. And if someone lost 30% of his prior power due to the loss of the spell on them, I'd expect to see it noted somewhere, someplace. Not so anywhere in the original manga. Maybe if Galu had said "Wow, Vegeta is doing really good even without Babidi's influence!" when he seemed to be holding his own with the Ki blast barrage, noting that his power had decreased following his death, then I'd side with you. Unfortunately we not only have every potential unlock thus far being retained post-mortem, but we also have instances of things that would logically need special conditions to be met like Cell's Perfect form and Galu and Vegeta's SSJG forms being kept following the forms' expiration. If Vegeta can retain the power of SSJG when it's supposed to be temporary I think it's safe to say with nothing noting that he lost power, he kept the power boost since it was performed after Babidi already took control of his head.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

Chapter: 456 (DBZ 262), P4.3
Context: as Babidi takes control of Vegeta
Babidi: “While I’m at it, I’ll draw out his hidden power to beyond [his? its?] limits!”

This implies that the potential unlock is separate from the mind control spell.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Chapter: 456 (DBZ 262), P4.3
Context: as Babidi takes control of Vegeta
Babidi: “While I’m at it, I’ll draw out his hidden power to beyond [his? its?] limits!”

This implies that the potential unlock is separate from the mind control spell.

Look at the full page; the mind control was still being done.

They’re more like two steps of the same spell.

Plus Rou Dai Kaioshit calls them rivals as though there's no great difference between them beyond SSJ3. Prior to the potential unlock Vegeta was intimidated just by Goku flashing SSJ2 against Yakon.

That’s about their relationship though, not how their powers compare. Majin or not Vegeta is still one shot fodder to SSJ3 Goku.

1.25x is still about equivalent to the difference between Cui and pre-Zarbon Vegeta. Don't see why something that would heavily impact performance in a world where being 2x stronger makes you the greater fighter by leaps and bounds and worlds and realms wouldn't be noted. Imagine SSJ3 Galu lost 30% of his Ki and got his ass whooped by Boo as a result, would it not be noted?

1.25x is definitely a big deal, but it’s nothing compared to a 50-100x boost. Goku losing 30% of his power is a big deal because that’d make the fight a stomp. Vegeta losing that doesn’t change a thing. Vegeta losing his transformation? He’s finger click fodder now. Not sure if Pure Boo could even one shot SSJ2 Vegeta, but he definitely can one shot base Vegeta if he wants.

Talking about Vegeta vs Boo, his perfomance is also clearly worse. He could withstand an angry explosion from Fatso, but Pure Boo put him down in like two blows. And Vegeta was even surprised at how strong these blows were despite already acknowledging he was fodder before. You could chalk that up to him losing the Majin durability, but if he lost that why would he keep the power?

We see in the manga itself that the unlocking of potential took place after Vegeta's mind was put under Babidi's spell. And every other potential unlock from the God Water to Molestation Master Guru and Rou Dai Kaioshin was retained after revival, don't see why this would be different. And if someone lost 30% of his prior power due to the loss of the spell on them, I'd expect to see it noted somewhere, someplace. Not so anywhere in the original manga. Maybe if Galu had said "Wow, Vegeta is doing really good even without Babidi's influence!" when he seemed to be holding his own with the Ki blast barrage, noting that his power had decreased following his death, then I'd side with you. Unfortunately we not only have every potential unlock thus far being retained post-mortem, but we also have instances of things that would logically need special conditions to be met like Cell's Perfect form and Galu and Vegeta's SSJG forms being kept following the forms' expiration. If Vegeta can retain the power of SSJG when it's supposed to be temporary I think it's safe to say with nothing noting that he lost power, he kept the power boost since it was performed after Babidi already took control of his head.

The power unlock was actually done during the mind possession.

I think it goes the other way around here. Guru and Kaioshin’s boosts didn’t require any kind of bargain, so we have no reason to assume the power would vanish. But Babidi’s unlock is a lot like Gohan’s rage boosts (which is a kind of potential unleash) as it requires specific conditions to happen.

The only way I can see Vegeta still rivaling Goku is if we assume Emma Daio gave him a stronger body to fight Boo, but that’s only suggested in the Dragon Books.

 

[Diamond Ryan]

@GreatSaiyaman123 Just because he unlocked his potential while doing the mind control spell doesn't necessarily mean they're directly connected. Babidi had to do something additional in order to unlock his potential, rather than just letting the mind control spell do it in of itself. Unless what you're trying to argue is that Babidi can only unlock the potential of those under his control, but that's a bit different from them being the same spell.

 

[SIAD]

I want to congratulate you on your great list.

I agree with almost everything, what I do not agree with is returning to Vegeta (Post Majin) just like Vegeta (Pre Majin). Even if you think Majin lost momentum at last, it could be assumed that he got a Zenkai Power after reviving.

Also just in my case, I like to widen the difference between Vegeta SSJ2 (Pre Majin) over Dabura, SPC and Gohan SSJ2, because Vegeta talks about him going to kill Dabura in an instant. Furthermore Majin Vegeta SSJ2 treats Dabura and Fat Boo (Initial) as insignificant garbage.

Just as a suggestion, put colors darker than yellow, since it is difficult to read those numbers with such light colors.

Hopefully you include DBGT and DBS.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Do you guys think Piccolo being 90% of Vegeta is too close? I'm thinking about lowering him to 80%, but the fake androids gotta be > Goku and Trunks. Vegeta and Piccolo say they're kinda weak, but nothing that raises questions. Piccolo even thinks he may have gotten too strong based on his fight with 20. Sounds like Piccolo > Androids > Debut Trunks for me.

 

[SSJ2]

Piccolo being 90% of Vegeta is absurd lol.

Pre 3 Year Gap:

Future Trunks
-Suppressed: 5
--Full Power: 6,400,000
---Super Saiyan: 320,000,000

Son Goku
-Base: 7,000,000
--Super Saiyan: 350,000,000

Post:

Son Goku
-Base: 11,000,000
--Super Saiyan (Sick): 450,000,000 and declining.
---Super Saiyan (Unseen FP): 550,000,000

Future Trunks
-Base: 10,400,000
--Super Saiyan: 520,000,000

Vegeta
-Base: 11,500,000
--Super Saiyan: 575,000,000

Piccolo
-Suppressed: 10,000,000
--Full Power: 420,000,000

Android 19
-Pre Absorption: 320,000,000
-Post Absorption: 355,000,000

Android 20
-Pre Absorption: 335,000,000
--Yamcha Absorbed: 336,000,000
---Post Vegeta's Blast: 350,000,000
----Piccolo Absorbed: 360,000,000

It works fine if you assume that the Androids didn't raise their maximum power by much. 19 had already lost a lot of energy before absorbing Goku's so he doesn't need to get that much stronger.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I'm thinking about something like this.

SSJ Trunks: 180
SSJ Goku: 200

3 years later

SSJ Goku: 297
~ Sick: 225

Android 19: 150
~ Post absorptions: 180

SSJ Vegeta: 300

Android 20: 180
~ Post absorptions: 200

Piccolo: 240

SSJ Trunks: 288