GreatSaiyaman's Battle Power List

[ahill1]

Imperfect Cell vs Vegeta is definitely one fight I'd like to see.

 

[p123]

I honestly don't think it would be much of a fight. Clearly Vegeta doesn't think so either. Cell was holding his own with Kamiccolo, Vegeta was being toyed with by 18. There's a significant gap between Vegeta and Cell.

 

[Six Trails]

Piccolo only getting 2.5x stronger in the RoSaT is

 

[p123]

50% Goku ~ Piccolo Rosat > Warm Up Goku >>>>Piccolo Pre

You are damn right. That's one of piccolos bigger power up and he's got a few of those.

 

[GSM123]

@Mikey nothing wrong about it when it's just stated he got a lot stronger. It could even be a 1.5x boost and there would be nothing wrong about it.

@P Wtf at Piccolo ~ 50% Goku? It was Piccolo himself who said he stood no chance while thinking 50% = FP. Absolutely nothing requires this power up to be big.

 

[p123]

It's a difficult concept for some to get with for some reason. But for me, it's clear as day.

Piccolo appears to be privvy to information no one knows. He has powered up tremendously, so much so that it's worth talking about at this point of the story. I feel the conversation at hand is about Piccolo knowing Goku all too well and thinking that monstrous power he showcased previously wasn't even his full power. Piccolo has more or less caught up to Goku's power, Goku recognizes his power, but Piccolo then says to give it to him straight. Goku tells him he is worthless, Piccolo guessed right, but he still feels a little sheepish actually thinking his power meant something. Trunks is shocked by this revelation and everyone is wondering just how damn strong Cell will be. This is why we see zero confidence from Trunks, even though he surpassed 50% Goku easily.

 

[ahill1]

What about Vegeta? Do you think he also realized Goku's power showcased to Karin was just the tip of the iceberg?

 

[p123]

Yep. You have to remember just how long they had to themselves, alone with their thoughts. Nearly a year in time, in solitary. Training. Thinking about Cell everyday. Thinking about what power Goku just showcased. Piccolo has less ego and knows Goku all too well. He knows Goku always has a trick up his sleeve. I think Piccolo's power kept making steady progress and with the further he got along, the more he starting to think a dreadful thought. What if, what if perhaps, Goku didn't show us everything he had. Knowing Goku, he probably has more. Hell, perhaps a whole lot more. Piccolo keeps training and keeps wondering. Finally after coming to a respectable level and his gains stalling out, he concludes that Goku probably indeed has a whole lot more in the tank. Which is why Piccolo sets out to confirm this as soon as he gets a chance to bring it up. Piccolo expected it, but Goku's flippancy shocks him.

Vegeta more or less had a similar process or Trunks filled him in. Either way, Vegeta still holds to his ego, he knows deep down Goku is probably superior, but feels necessary to put up a front. We all know how Vegeta acts when he truly thinks he's the strongest. He's an absolute madman. This Vegeta at the Cell Game is reserved, talking a big game, but never showing any true confidence in himself.

 

[GSM123]

Except nobody talked about his power up at all. On the Cell Games Cell makes point of Vegeta and Trunks' improvements but completely ignores Piccolo. If he thinks it's worth noting Vegeta and Trunks' gains, why not Piccolo, who according to you started way lower than Vegeta but has catched up to him now?

Goku recognizes his power because he powered up, that's all. He trained a year, of course he's gonna make some good gains. Piccolo felt offended because of the way Goku stated it, what also explains Trunks' reaction. Of course, Piccolo asked Goku to be blunt, but smiling and saying "Duh, you're fucking fodder Piccolo" is not normal from Goku.

The plot gives no indication of Piccolo being relevant, so we don't need to assume he made those insane gains like the Android Arc one. Logically i don't see him any higher than FP Semi Cell or Super Vegeta, as he trained only a year on the Rosat, without a sparring partner.

 

[p123]

Goku talks about Piccolo powering up. Piccolo says yea, but, compared to you, I'm nothing. Goku agrees. Trunks is shocked. Why is Trunks shocked? I think previously, it was expected that Piccolo's power was respectable. At least in Trunks eyes. For Trunks to be so shocked, I think it's a good point in saying that Piccolo is more or less around Goku, but now some of the main cast is aware of what the reader knows. That Goku at the Tower wasn't near his full power. Piccolo didn't even want to believe it either, but he had that gut feeling. So to sum it up, Piccolo's powered up to respectable levels, so much so that him being considered a weakling to Goku baffles Trunks.

Vegeta and Trunks power are only noted because of their ability to hold their own against the Cell Juniors. Piccolo is obviously getting his ass kicked, so I don't think it makes sense for Cell to speak about Piccolo's power in a positive light. It's more like, oh hey, these two actually got pretty damn strong, alright!

You can look at it as if Trunks is shocked merely by Goku's bluntness. Many people go by that. But that's not my interpretation. Piccolo is not dumb. He knows exactly how strong he is. He is a genius. Not an idiot. My interpretation displays Piccolo's genius, while yours makes him look like a goofball. These guys know the writing on the wall, knowing Piccolo, there's layers to his comments. That's what I see.

I won't even waste my breath too much explaining power ups because they are mostly plot, but the way I think about it is, Piccolo's hit a whole new level of potential now that he's merged with Kami. Much like how Nail's merging with Piccolo allowed him to reach Super Saiyan heights, Kami's merger allows him to hit wildly new heights.

Also, with Kami's genius, Piccolo is able to reach nearly his max potential. I think Piccolo is already at the lion's share of power he will ever hold for the rest of his life, manga wise at least.

 

[GSM123]

I actually prefer to think Trunks really was surprised at Goku's behavior considering how little evidence there is for Piccolo being that strong, even most of the evidence going against it. If i were to take his surprise to be about power i wouldn't have him any higher than Grade 3 Trunks tbh. 50% Goku seems like a plateau above Piccolo's going by his own words.

I'm actually refering to when Cell was thinking about who's gonna replace Goku. He mentions Vegeta and Trunks, but completely overlooks Piccolo like he's goddamn Yamcha:
Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P13.5
Context: after Goku says there’s other people to fight besides him
Cell: “It’s the same thing. Vegeta and Trunks may have raised their power, but they should still be inferior to you…”
If Piccolo raised his power to be on the same realm as Trunks and Vegeta, even though he started much lower than them, then Cell would definitely have mentioned him.

I now how plot is what dictates power, but nothing on the plot requires Piccolo to be strong. He does nothing but outperform the earthlings and a Goku who has nothing left against playful opponents. Even #16 has better showings as he at least had Cell on a hold. Piccolo did hit a whole new level by fusing with Kami, but it still shouldn't be enough for him to get on such high heights. Vegeta has even more potential than him, had a sparring partner but he still needed to unlock a transformation in order to surpass Cell's 2nd form.

 

[p123]

Ok, let's see how your logic holds up to the grinder.

1) How strong is Piccolo in your mind?
2) Piccolo telling Goku is tell him he's weak is just Piccolo being a masochist? Piccolo should know how he fares, he can sense ki right?
3) How strong does Piccolo think Goku is while talking to him? Why is he sheepish at Goku's answer?
4) How strong does the Z Team think Goku is going to be heading in to fight Cell? As strong as he was on Korin's tower? Why?

 

[GSM123]

1) Weaker than 50% Goku. He can be anywhere between #16 and Super Vegeta. From above that is still possible, but unlikely.

2) Piccolo asks Goku to tell the truth because he knows he's fodder and doesn't wanna Goku to threat him like a baby. His words were something like "Quit bullshitting Goku, say the truth. I'm fodder."

3) Same power as 50% Goku. Piccolo saw Goku's burst and it was so high he and the others just assumed it was his full power. Piccolo was sheepish to the answer because he asked Goku to be blunt, but Goku was actually rude to him, what isn't natural from Goku.

4) Same as Piccolo: They think Goku's max is what he showed to Karin. Everyone shat bricks to Goku's true power, they weren't expecting anything like that.
Of course, they should be able to sense Goku's reserves like Kuririn did to Cell and Trunks. The issue is: They sensed Goku for like a second. They barely had time to react. Goku's lack of aura on his resting state makes it hard to know how much power he is hidding.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

And Piccolo said he thought no-one could ever reach 2nd Form Cell level. Continuing Gawd's work. I'm proud of you.

 

[p123]

Do you think 50% Goku = Warm Up Goku?

 

[GSM123]

Goku powered down after he showed his power to Karin, so no.