How many times is Ultimate Gohan stronger than SSJ3 Goku

[p123]

No, in the manga, Super Saiyan is depicted as being a very small boost for Gotenks. I can't think of a good reason why the boost would change for Vegetto or Gogeta in this scenario.

 

[Victorious]

Ok, what makes it small for Gotenks?

 

[p123]

That Super Saiyan Gotenks doesn't seem to blow away Super Saiyan 3 Goku while Base Gotenks is suggested to be a lot stronger than Majin Vegeta.

 

[Victorious]

Not convinced of base Gotenks pre power. I mean he's a beast but where this is relative to SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is hard to say.

 

[p123]

Everyone seems to treat Base Gotenks power as a bigger deal than Majin Vegeta's power was ever treated. There is a lot more oohs and ahhs as well as typical progression of the story.

Piccolo is completely blown away by Base Gotenks power. Plus you want to give Gotenks at least some basis for his confidence. How could Gotenks be confident at all in his chances if he's weaker than trash like Majin Vegeta?

 

[Victorious]

So the question is, why is Gotenks confident and Kamiccolo unconfident? Goten and Trunks watched the same Majin Vegeta fight vs Fat Buu that Kamiccolo did. You'd have to argue that Kamiccolo know's Buu's power for some strange reason more than they do. But why?

 

[p123]

Well Piccolo knows that it is going to take Super Saiyan Level 3 kind of power to deal with Buu. He just watched Goku vs Buu. Sure, he most likely thinks Goku can take him if he goes all out, but the fact that Goku has to even go all out on Buu speaks volumes on how powerful Buu is.

Base Gotenks on the other hand has amazing power, considering this isn't even his true power, but he's still way too far away from Goku.

You can blame the boys not sensing Goku's power accurately or whatever, but it's just weird to have Gotenks lower. Either way, you can't put him tremendously lower, he for sure is stronger than the Super Saiyan boys.

 

[Victorious]

Goten watched Goku vs Fat Buu, right?

 

[p123]

Yep.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Did Goku tell everyone that he can't beat Boo by SS3?

 

[Victorious]

Yep.

Then I don't think Gotenk's confidence is credible.

Kamiccolo and Trunks + Goten saw the same SSJ2 Majin Vegeta fight vs Fat Buu, and saw the same SSJ3 Goku fight vs Fat Buu.

Yet come to vastly different conclusions about what it takes to beat Fat Buu. And Kamiccolo was right, of course.

So while you obviously could have base Gotenks >> SSJ2 Majin Vegeta without contradiction, there's no reason it has to be the case. SSJ2 Majin Vegeta >> Base Gotenks isnt contradicted either.

And honestly I like it that way rather than either forcing SSJ multipliers to be nerfed a ton in Fusions, or that SSJ3 multiplier over SSJ2 is bigger than base to SSJ.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Did Goku tell everyone that he can't beat Boo by SS3?

He only told Piccolo that he couldn't. Everyone else probably assumed he couldn't or didn't care enough.

 

[p123]

So how strong do you have Base Gotenks Vic? Either way it's definitely not 50x for Gotenks.

 

[Victorious]

Ahead of the SSJs but nowhere near an SSJ2. Nowhere near FP PC even.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Ahead of the SSJs but nowhere near an SSJ2. Nowhere near FP PC even.

SSJ Goku/Vegeta/Kid Gohan?

 

[p123]

Nowhere near a 50x boost either way you cut it Vic

 

[Victorious]

Ahead of the SSJs but nowhere near an SSJ2. Nowhere near FP PC even.

SSJ Goku/Vegeta/Kid Gohan?

Where base Gotenks pre ends up compared to the SSJs depends on your multiplies for SSJ2 and SSJ3. Because i feel SSJ Gotenks will only be a little ahead of SSJ3 Goku. If SSJ Gotenks is a 100, well SSJ3 Goku is a 90.I use 5x for SSJ2 and 10x for SSJ3.So for me SSJ3 is 50x SSJ. I still go with 50x for base to SSJ as well.

 

[p123]

There is no way in hell that SSJ3 Goku is 50x stronger than Super Saiyan Goku.

 

[Victorious]

Why not? The lowest i'd want it is 32x.

 

[Future Warrior]

Where Base Gotenks ends up is all up for interpretation. It would seem that he is more powerful than a SSJ2-Tier seeing as he already seen SSJ2 Vegeta getting beaten to a pulp by Boo and knowing that it too Goku at SSJ3 too match him, that may be where his confidence came from. But then again, it could just be that his confidence has led to him underestimating Fat Boo due to him ultimately surpassing Goku and Vegeta and ultimately becoming the strongest being on Earth, so it's a possibility he hasn't surpassed SSJ2 in Base.