How strong is Freeza when he first fights Goku?

[SSJ2]

Yeah pretty similar to that, I'd argue it's even closer though.

 

[FeatsofPower]

</< Freeza increased speed < Goku initial

Why have Freeza go down to his second level and not his first?

 

[SSJ2]

Why have Freeza go down to his second level and not his first?

After kicking the blast? I'm not sure why he would go back to his weakest level when he already established a better one.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Tenshinhan withholds his speed without changing his power against Goku in the 23rd.

 

[SSJ2]

Cell increases his speed against Gohan and it's pretty clear that his power also increased. Speed and power correlate unless otherwise stated.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell increases his speed against Gohan and it's pretty clear that his power also increased. Speed and power correlate unless otherwise stated.

Is it? Gohan took no damage and Cell was pissed. Power is an umbrella term, but speed is very specific. Tenshinhan doesn’t say he’s only rising his speed either.

 

[SSJ2]

Gohan already easily blocked one of Cell's attacks before he increased his speed. Cell expecting his newfound speed to make a difference wouldn't make sense if he remained at the same power.

Cell also started to dominate Gohan pretty soon after, which could be due to another power up, but still.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Cell expecting his newfound speed to make a difference wouldn't make sense if he remained at the same power.

Exactly

 

[Pakl]

Piccolo
post Kaio-sama's training (6 days)
~ full power : 250,000
post Nail assimilation
~ with weights : 1,360,000
~ full power : 1,700,000

Son Gohan
post Recoome fight zenkai
~ normal : 200,000
~ enraged : 950,000
post 2nd form Freeza beatdown zenkai
~ normal : 600,000
~ enraged : 2,350,000

Vegeta
post Recoome fight zenkai
~ full power : 450,000
post Kuririn blast zenkai
~ full power : 4,500,000

Son Goku
post Ginyu swap zenkai
~ full power : 6,500,000
~ Kaio-ken x 10 : 65,000,000
~ Kaio-ken x 20 : 130,000,000
~ Super Saiyan : 325,000,000

Freeza
~ 1st form : 530,000
~ 2nd form (initial) : 1,060,000
~ 2nd form (powered up) : 1,250,000
~ 2nd form (full power) : 1,530,000
~ 3rd form : 2,500,000
~ True form (initial level) : 3,750,000
~ True form (raised speed) : 6,750,000
~ True form (50%) : 142,500,000
~ True form (70%) : 199,500,000
~ True form (100%) : 285,000,000

@FeatsofPower What do you think?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Vegeta =< Frieza (initial speed vs Vegeta) < Frieza (speed increased) = Frieza knocking Vegeta's Final Attack < initial base Goku who deflected Frieza's death beams = warm up Frieza < FP base Goku < = No hands Frieza.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Frieza (speed increased) = Frieza knocking Vegeta's Final Attack

This is an error. Freeza barely increases his speed to clown Vegeta and then appears to use all of his effort and his might to knock back the blast.

Freeza hitting Blast >> Freeza Power Up > Freeza


Remember, Piccolo and Vegeta assumed Freeza would die versus that blast. Him kicking it back was a total shocker.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Piccolo and Vegeta don’t assume anything though. Vegeta is having a mental breakdown and Piccolo says he’s gonna blow up the planet.

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

This is an error. Freeza barely increases his speed to clown Vegeta and then appears to use all of his effort and his might to knock back the blast.

When Frieza increases his effort, it is said by himself like when he said that he is at 70% vs SSj Goku.

Freeza hitting Blast >> Freeza Power Up > Freeza

Frieza increased his speed, not just his power in general.

Remember, Piccolo and Vegeta assumed Freeza would die versus that blast. Him kicking it back was a total shocker.

Vegeta was frustrated and didn't know what to do which should infer in his capabilities as he is not in a regular mind state, Piccolo assumes Frieza would die because if the blast touch Namek he gets done.

Frieza even at 100% can suffer a vast amount of damage while getting caught in the explosion as stated by himself.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Piccolo and Vegeta don’t assume anything though. Vegeta is having a mental breakdown and Piccolo says he’s gonna blow up the planet.

Vegeta assumes the attack will have an effect on Freeza, otherwise he wouldn’t even attempt it.

Piccolo assumes Vegeta’s attack will not only wipe out Freeza, but the planet alongside with him.

Both characters expect Freeza to be destroyed. That is the narrative. Which is why when Freeza can so easily kick it back, it’s a complete shocker.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Frieza increased his speed, not just his power in general.

When someone increases their power, do you assume their speed increases as well? Or do you need a specific statement to address the speed increase as well?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

When someone increases their power, do you assume their speed increases as well? Or do you need a specific statement to address the speed increase as well?

When someone increases their speed it just increases that specific attribute. Their power remains the same.

Unless it is a full power up, their other attributes aren't touched. A full power up includes getting stronger, faster and more resilent.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Vegeta assumes the attack will have an effect on Freeza, otherwise he wouldn’t even attempt it.

This is stupid. what kind of loser just lays down and gives up without trying their best? “Oh no, he just dodged me! I give up” yup, totally what Vegeta does. Remember when KKx3 Goku kicked his ass and he went home crying?

 

[FeatsofPower]

This is stupid. what kind of loser just lays down and gives up without trying their best?

In this series? A ton of people. When people feel completely outmatched, they won’t even bother trying knowing it’s a waste of time.

 

[Yoshi]

3 million.

 

[FeatsofPower]

Tenshinhan withholds his speed without changing his power against Goku in the 23rd.

Which is why we always assume balance unless otherwise stated. Tien is like the one time this happens other than the Buffed states.

After kicking the blast? I'm not sure why he would go back to his weakest level when he already established a better one.

Well we know for sure he reduced his level from his full effort. Why wouldn't he go back down all the way instead of just halfway? He doesn't expect Goku to be any sort of threat.