How strong is M5 Coola?

[SSJ2]

How stronger do you have Coola in both 4th form and 5th form?

 

[withheldforprivacy]

4th form: About 10x Kaioken Yardrat Goku.
5th form: A little stronger than Mecha Freeza.

 

[Let's Go Fearless!]

Depends on how you interpret Cooler's statement about base Goku defeating Frieza. But if I ignore that statement then I put his 5th form around Yadrat Goku.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

I'd place his 5th form in between 100% Mecha Freeza and SSJ Trunks from the same time. I don't think Coola's initial statement of seeing how Base Galu beat Freeza to mean much when later on, he said SSJ must've been what allowed Goku to beat Freeza. I'd chalk up the former statement to mean Coola believed Goku beat Freeza when he was either in a lower form or a lower percentage before he could power up. His Supernova's amp would place him not too far above Sick SSJ Goku via-scaling though imo.

As for Base Coola, I'd place Goku at the start of this film equal to his post-Yardrat self, and it's shown that Base Goku (post-Zenkai) > 4th form Coola >> Initial M5 Base Goku. 4th form Coola should be strong enough to stomp Base post-Yardrat Goku, but still in the range that a combo such as Base Goku/Future Trunks at the time of the Mecha Freeza battle could beat him.

 

[withheldforprivacy]

I'd place his 5th form in between 100% Mecha Freeza and SSJ Trunks from the same time. I don't think Coola's initial statement of seeing how Base Galu beat Freeza to mean much when later on, he said SSJ must've been what allowed Goku to beat Freeza. I'd chalk up the former statement to mean Coola believed Goku beat Freeza when he was either in a lower form or a lower percentage before he could power up. His Supernova's amp would place him not too far above Sick SSJ Goku via-scaling though imo.

As for Base Coola, I'd place Goku at the start of this film equal to his post-Yardrat self, and it's shown that Base Goku (post-Zenkai) > 4th form Coola >> Initial M5 Base Goku. 4th form Coola should be strong enough to stomp Base post-Yardrat Goku, but still in the range that a combo such as Base Goku/Future Trunks at the time of the Mecha Freeza battle could beat him.

Are zenkais still a thing after SSJ?

 

[Captain Cadaver]

Are zenkais still a thing after SSJ?

Super shows they are, and it's definitely the case in this film. Goku had enough time to prepare himself when Coola KO'd him, so his initial defeat can't just be chalked up to being off-guard and he definitely gained a Zenkai in this film.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

Stronger than M5 Cool.

 

[Tapion]

I'd place his 5th form in between 100% Mecha Freeza and SSJ Trunks from the same time. I don't think Coola's initial statement of seeing how Base Galu beat Freeza to mean much when later on, he said SSJ must've been what allowed Goku to beat Freeza.

He didn't say that. He said he now understood why Freeza wasn't able to kill Goku, and then went to the sky and charged a Supernova.

He can't have thought Freeza was beaten in a lower form because he never said anything about Piccolo, who had powered up since Namek, being even possibly able to threaten Freeza. So he knew he was beaten in a higher form.

Also, Cooler is shown to be able to control his ki, since he could sneak up on Piccolo and approach Earth without being sensed, unlike Freeza and King Cold.

 

[Pyro]

Base Goku: "Enough to beat Freeza."
SS Goku: "Freeza was no match for Goku."

 

[SSJ2]

Base Goku: "Enough to beat Freeza."
SS Goku: "Freeza was no match for Goku."

So Base Goku = Mecha Freeza? I like that.

 

[Captain Cadaver]

He didn't say that. He said he now understood why Freeza wasn't able to kill Goku, and then went to the sky and charged a Supernova.

Wouldn't Goku's display of Kaioken, regardless of how brief it was, suffice in letting Coola know this if that were the case?

He can't have thought Freeza was beaten in a lower form because he never said anything about Piccolo, who had powered up since Namek, being even possibly able to threaten Freeza. So he knew he was beaten in a higher form.

He'd already been told Freeza was beaten by a Saiyan on Earth though, so how strong Piccolo was would've been irrelevant to him if it was still someone he could easily dispatch.

Also, Cooler is shown to be able to control his ki, since he could sneak up on Piccolo and approach Earth without being sensed, unlike Freeza and King Cold.

That still wouldn't necessarily show Coola can bring his Ki to the same level as his brother or father though without his 5th form. The Daizenshuu supports this by only citing Freeza and Cold as exceptional prodigies amongst their race, despite Daizenshuu 6 and 7 still mentioning Coola.

 

[Tapion]

Wouldn't Goku's display of Kaioken, regardless of how brief it was, suffice in letting Coola know this if that were the case?

I went back and reviewed Steve Simmons's subs:

Cooler never ever stated that Super Saiyan must have been what Goku used to kill Freeza. He said that he now saw why Freeza was no match at all for Goku.

Cooler can not sense ki, he can merely judge by battle performances. When you look at the entire context, it can be inferred that Cooler, seeing how Goku was able to beat him, concluded that Base Goku could have also defeated Freeza with considerable effort. All in all:

Base Goku >= 100% Freeza >~ 4th Form Cooler

Can work just fine.

 

[p123]

That means perhaps Kaioken x20 Goku was a match for Freeza.

 

[Tapion]

That means perhaps Kaioken x20 Goku was a match for Freeza.

Cooler had already said Base Goku without Kaioken could have defeated Freeza. Why not take his word for it?

It's not like multi double digit-fold Zenkai GAINZ weren't already a thing in the series.

 

[p123]

Because TOEI doesn't know how to write a proper script. Their power statements are sucky...

Ok, so you think Goku got a lot stronger than with his zenkai? Another 33x stronger or so?

 

[Tapion]

Assuming this Goku is equal to Yardrat Goku, more like 20x or so.

 

[p123]

Seems uncalled for imo...

It's only Super Saiyan Goku who makes Cooler understand how Freeza was no match. He never says the same about Kaioken Goku. That line has to actually mean something.

 

[Tapion]

He never says the same about Kaioken Goku because Goku with the KK literally didn't even lay a hit on him nor was significant at all. Goku was one-shotted by an attack that didn't even hit him frontally.

 

[p123]

Sure, he didn't land an attack, but Cooler can see how fast Kaioken Goku is moving. If Kaioken Goku outstripped Freeza's full power, he would have understood why Freeza was outmatched by Kaioken Goku. There's a reason he doesn't say that until Super Saiyan is revealed. Only Super Saiyan outstrips Freeza completely.

 

[Tapion]

Sure, he didn't land an attack, but Cooler can see how fast Kaioken Goku is moving. If Kaioken Goku outstripped Freeza's full power, he would have understood why Freeza was outmatched by Kaioken Goku. There's a reason he doesn't say that until Super Saiyan is revealed. Only Super Saiyan outstrips Freeza completely.

Kaioken Goku was only able to move fast and that's all Cooler knows. He one-shotted Goku out of Kaioken with an attack that didn't even frontally hit Goku. He isn't making any comments on a pathetic, slightly fast aura that he doesn't even know is a power-up. Cooler only judges by battle performances since he can't sense ki. Not only that, Cooler states that he now understands why his brother was no match in the slightest - he is clearly talking about power and not speed.

There's also a reason why Cooler outright states that Base Goku is strong enough to have defeated Freeza.