Hypothetical Buu Saga Fight

[Natasha Romanoff]

I wonder if @Kenshi is going to throw that tantrums worthy of a psychiatric dropout again. What is clear is that he has proven to be a non-factor in this. Same goes with @LeatherDaddy

 

[Father]

All I hear is bubbling shit dribble from a cookie cutter wannabe mcu broad huehue
It pissening unfort.

 

[Hitrule]

Goku x Vegeta, seriously?

You do realize that the scaling system changes the outcome of that fusion formula, right?

If using battle power x battle power, base Vegetto would be monstrous. Using Kiri x Kiri, not nearly as much.

That's why guide stuff like that should be taken as hyperbole... and with a grain of salt.

And are you seriously suggesting Buu absorptions are exponential? And to what end? What difference does it make?

Yeah, seriously.

Not really, it's just the majority don't understand how math works, not trying to have this superiority complex over them but it just goes to show that a lot of people failed what they should have learned in 3rd grade.

Yeah, he's monstrous, up there with Buuhan who's also monstrous. Even more monstrous as a Super Saiyan. Kiri? You're talking about that Babidi scale stuff?

It should be taken as fact when lots of other things support so, gotta be honest with you, slapping hyperbole on it just sounds like cope to not accept a method you've always been against simply because it goes against your long term views.

Yeah they could (keyword) be small (Buuccolo) or exponential (Buutenks-Buuhan), it all depends on who's being Absorbed and how strong they are. Oh and it also depends on what degree of exponential you're talking about here, because Super Buu (Evil Buu with Good Buu absorbed? ) is a SSJ3 boost beyond Fat Buu assuming you scale Post Rosat Base Gotenks to be Fat Buu level.

 

[Hitrule]

For the simplicity sake, let's assume that Goten and Trunks are 3,500,000 x 3,600,000. Gotenks' base form would end up being vast, yet he is still stomped by Fat Buu, are you going to tell me that Fat Buu is over 3 million times stronger than Goten and Trunks or Gohan and by extension Goku is too?

Then, how the hell, absorptions can be multiplied if Goten x Trunks x Piccolo x Super Buu would end up vastly surpassing Gohan? And it is actually proven that Buu had to absorb someone who is close to his power in order to actually put himself on top of Gohan? Can't you realize that absorption is simply A + B in Buu's case?

Cell and Buu's reaction towards Gohan's power, how they admit inferiority towards Gohan and the artwork pretty much implies that Toriyama intended for Gohan vs Super Buu to be the same gap as Gohan vs Cell. Non ironically Super Vegetto vs Gohan Buu and Super Vegeta vs Semi Cell actually are very similar too, which is clearly the base of the scalling. If you behave like the other stupid, I'll not treat you kindly.

Not really, he's pissweak to even be of help against Buu being with Goku and Kid Buu is too much for him. Only anime Merged Zamasu was, manga Zamasu was trash.

Yes of course, not far fetched either, you just gotta be open minded to hear a new perspective that goes against your long term beLIEfs.

I never said it's always multiplied now did I? Buuccolo is proof enough. Exactly which is why Buutenks is that powerful, he's way on top of Gohan. No I can't simply see it's just A + B because it's not implied nor supported when the full context is analyzed (context is key, context matters). It's kinda like how most use that well known “Goku was afraid of Super Buu” argument to determine certain topics except when you put on those detective goggles and look deeper into the context etc that it was all actually Size related rather than in general.

How did the artwork determine the same power gap? Enlighten me, because that sure sounds like good ole Headcanon mixed with a touch of Confirmation Bias. Damn, I never knew Super Vegeta was a Super Saiyan increase above Semi Perfect Cell (you know, like, how Super Vegetto is pretty much 50× minimum above Buuhan yet you say their the same gap?). Never knew that was CLEARLY the base of the scaling .

Both Merged Zamasus were super powerful, as a matter of fact, I'd love to show you how the Manga scaling actually goes when I transfer my Manga scaling into a Doc, coming soon. Before you somehow misinterpret what I said, I will only agree that Manga Merged Zamasu is trash compared to his Anime counterpart, otherwise he's exponentially more powerful than Goku Black (the power of Potara).

Side note: I also scaled the DBS Anime in a Doc as well which is already done if you want to read it (GT as well).

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

Yes of course, not far fetched either, you just gotta be open minded to hear a new perspective that goes against your long term beLIEfs.

I never said it's always multiplied now did I? Buuccolo is proof enough. Exactly which is why Buutenks is that powerful, he's way on top of Gohan. No I can't simply see it's just A + B because it's not implied nor supported when the full context is analyzed (context is key, context matters). It's kinda like how most use that well known “Goku was afraid of Super Buu” argument to determine certain topics except when you put on those detective goggles and look deeper into the context etc that it was all actually Size related rather than in general.

It's not matter of going against "my long terms belief", but to watch whether something makes minimal sense or not, which it doesn't. Even if I hear it, I would not be convinced because it lacks of completely logical sense.

SSJ Kid Trunks by himself could kick back Fat Buu, yes Buu was distracted with Vegeta but with a million of times gap to happen it'd be absurd.

Gotenks Buu isn't Gotenks x Buu x Piccolo, that doesn't even make sense, how much extremely high that number has to be and Gohan/Goku/Old Kaioshin not realizing that Buu's power has gotten the most highest and extreme power-up ever sensed in the series? Hell, even Gohan didn't lose his confidence at first.

How did the artwork determine the same power gap? Enlighten me, because that sure sounds like good ole Headcanon mixed with a touch of Confirmation Bias. Damn, I never knew Super Vegeta was a Super Saiyan increase above Semi Perfect Cell (you know, like, how Super Vegetto is pretty much 50× minimum above Buuhan yet you say their the same gap?). Never knew that was CLEARLY the base of the scaling .

Because Base Vegetto is not that strong... He is just stronger than SSJ3 Goku as the Daizenshuu puts him. There's no other power statement that doesn't relate to vague terms and we don't know how SSJ works on Fusion.

Both Merged Zamasus were super powerful, as a matter of fact, I'd love to show you how the Manga scaling actually goes when I transfer my Manga scaling into a Doc, coming soon. Before you somehow misinterpret what I said, I will only agree that Manga Merged Zamasu is trash compared to his Anime counterpart, otherwise he's exponentially more powerful than Goku Black (the power of Potara).

Side note: I also scaled the DBS Anime in a Doc as well which is already done if you want to read it (GT as well).

Manga Merged Zamasu was blasted away by a weakened base Vegetto in a regular ki blast and Goku Blue was going toe to toe with him despite of the fact that Black and Zamasu are exponentially stronger than Base Goku & Vegeta, it's clear that he has an increase quite low in the manga version.

 

[Dagon]

Yeah, seriously.

Not really, it's just the majority don't understand how math works, not trying to have this superiority complex over them but it just goes to show that a lot of people failed what they should have learned in 3rd grade.

Yeah, he's monstrous, up there with Buuhan who's also monstrous. Even more monstrous as a Super Saiyan. Kiri? You're talking about that Babidi scale stuff?

It should be taken as fact when lots of other things support so, gotta be honest with you, slapping hyperbole on it just sounds like cope to not accept a method you've always been against simply because it goes against your long term views.

Using battle power x battle power wouldn't just make base Vegetto Buuhan's level but soar past it many times over.

Yeah they could (keyword) be small (Buuccolo) or exponential (Buutenks-Buuhan), it all depends on who's being Absorbed and how strong they are. Oh and it also depends on what degree of exponential you're talking about here, because Super Buu (Evil Buu with Good Buu absorbed? ) is a SSJ3 boost beyond Fat Buu assuming you scale Post Rosat Base Gotenks to be Fat Buu level.

Now that seems like massive cope in order to make Potara BP x BP work. Perhaps you think base Vegetto would be billions and trillion of times base Goku so to make Buuhan compete on that level in any sensible way you have to bloat his absorption powers.

You're ridiculous. This is agenda scaling.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

I think BP x BP is the obvious conclusion, if we’re reading the statement that way. Why would anyone be using Kili x Kili? By that logic, no official multiplier is reliable because it could very well be in Kili.

 

[Hitrule]

Using battle power x battle power wouldn't just make base Vegetto Buuhan's level but soar past it many times over.

Now that seems like massive cope in order to make Potara BP x BP work. Perhaps you think base Vegetto would be billions and trillion of times base Goku so to make Buuhan compete on that level in any sensible way you have to bloat his absorption powers.

You're ridiculous. This is agenda scaling.

No, it just means Buuhan is that strong, I don't get why a lot of people never think of the other component, for this, that must be the case (forgot the term for it).

Not cope at all trust me, I used to be ready to cause havoc because I didn't wanna accept A×B, if you know of Torrus Silvér, he'll tell you all about it. Would make sense his absorption is bloated after absorbing Ultimate Gohan...

No, it's Truth scaling, because I'm a Man of Truth.

 

[Hitrule]

I think BP x BP is the obvious conclusion, if we’re reading the statement that way. Why would anyone be using Kili x Kili? By that logic, no official multiplier is reliable because it could very well be in Kili.

Exactly. It's not like BP stopped being Canon. Toriyama just stopped continuing them post Freeza. If they were no longer relevant, the concept would be non existent yet it's still a thing in modern Dragon Ball (ie. RoF, DBS Broly).

 

[Hitrule]

It's not matter of going against "my long terms belief", but to watch whether something makes minimal sense or not, which it doesn't. Even if I hear it, I would not be convinced because it lacks of completely logical sense.

SSJ Kid Trunks by himself could kick back Fat Buu, yes Buu was distracted with Vegeta but with a million of times gap to happen it'd be absurd.

Gotenks Buu isn't Gotenks x Buu x Piccolo, that doesn't even make sense, how much extremely high that number has to be and Gohan/Goku/Old Kaioshin not realizing that Buu's power has gotten the most highest and extreme power-up ever sensed in the series? Hell, even Gohan didn't lose his confidence at first.

Because Base Vegetto is not that strong... He is just stronger than SSJ3 Goku as the Daizenshuu puts him. There's no other power statement that doesn't relate to vague terms and we don't know how SSJ works on Fusion.

Manga Merged Zamasu was blasted away by a weakened base Vegetto in a regular ki blast and Goku Blue was going toe to toe with him despite of the fact that Black and Zamasu are exponentially stronger than Base Goku & Vegeta, it's clear that he has an increase quite low in the manga version.

It lacks complete logical sense simply because you don't understand it (yet).

Sheesh, look at RoF. It happens.

I never said Buutenks was Buu × Gotenks × Piccolo now did I? Elder Kai and Goku know how strong Fusion makes individuals. Also ties in with Goku not being too sure that fusing with Vegeta would guarantee them victory over Buuhan but yet they still tried it because it's the ultimate last resort. Ties back in with Buutenks not being serious the whole time which explains that, it's simple Power Scaling.

And why isn't he that strong? The Daizenshuu puts him above SSJ3 Goku simply because SSJ3 was the highest transformation at the time (minus Ultimate if we'd consider that a "Transformation") and it shows he's even superior to that. For all we thought (now know), he could be just 2× over SSJ3 Goku, but based on scaling, he's dimensions above. We don't know how SSJ works with Fusion? Huh?

Gotta check the Manga out again bro, that's all easily explained in good detail, or would you rather read my Power Scaling go overs? Otherwise you'll know why Goku was able to go toe to toe with him. You're forgetting about the Rival Boost too...

 

[Dagon]

No, it just means Buuhan is that strong, I don't get why a lot of people never think of the other component, for this, that must be the case (forgot the term for it).

Not cope at all trust me, I used to be ready to cause havoc because I didn't wanna accept A×B, if you know of Torrus Silvér, he'll tell you all about it. Would make sense his absorption is bloated after absorbing Ultimate Gohan...

No, it's Truth scaling, because I'm a Man of Truth.

You must be one of those people who wants Dragon Ball to outshine other fictional universes so you make an agenda to wank the scaling as much as possible.

Since a BP x BP Potara formula would make base Vegetto soar past Buuhan if Buu's absorptions worked additively, you have to cope with an exponential or multiplicative increase for Buu's absorptions.

You're an agenda scaler.

 

[Hitrule]

You must be one of those people who wants Dragon Ball to outshine other fictional universes so you make an agenda to wank the scaling as much as possible.

Since a BP x BP Potara formula would make base Vegetto soar past Buuhan if Buu's absorptions worked additively, you have to cope with an exponential or multiplicative increase for Buu's absorptions.

You're an agenda scaler.

Not at all because I don't compare it to other fictional universes, never been in my criteria, I find those kind of conversations rather corny and boring.

I mean, I don't recall me ever siding with Buu's Absorptions working addictively, at least not Super Buu, Buutenks, and Buuhan. And it's not cope at all, it's what the information has presented.

Prove I'm this "Agenda Scaler" (whatever that means, enlighten me) rather than accusing me of so.

 

[Dagon]

Not at all because I don't compare it to other fictional universes, never been in my criteria, I find those kind of conversations rather corny and boring.

I mean, I don't recall me ever siding with Buu's Absorptions working addictively, at least not Super Buu, Buutenks, and Buuhan. And it's not cope at all, it's what the information has presented.

Prove I'm this "Agenda Scaler" (whatever that means, enlighten me) rather than accusing me of so.

You don't have to speak it for us to know what you're doing. You should have seen any number of scaling arguments for Buu's absorptions working additively. We know that you know that with base Vegetto millions or billions or more times stronger than base Goku it would sail past any conventional scaling with Buu's absorptions being additional.

And you know Buu isn't surpassed by base Vegetto to such a degree so you cope by concocting an argument for Buu's absorptions being more than additional.

Agenda scaler means someone who scales characters with an agenda, a predetermined goal already set, so their scaling arguments are in service to their predetermined goal.

For whatever reason you want to inflate Potara scaling. This is contrary to DBS which has Vados say fusion is more than the sum of the parts multiplied tens of times. Millions and billions is not "tens."

 

[Hitrule]

You don't have to speak it for us to know what you're doing. You should have seen any number of scaling arguments for Buu's absorptions working additively. We know that you know that with base Vegetto millions or billions or more times stronger than base Goku it would sail past any conventional scaling with Buu's absorptions being additional.

And you know Buu isn't surpassed by base Vegetto to such a degree so you cope by concocting an argument for Buu's absorptions being more than additional.

Agenda scaler means someone who scales characters with an agenda, a predetermined goal already set, so their scaling arguments are in service to their predetermined goal.

For whatever reason you want to inflate Potara scaling. This is contrary to DBS which has Vados say fusion is more than the sum of the parts multiplied tens of times. Millions and billions is not "tens."

Of course I have, but with more proof comes a changed perspective. I already went over why Buu's Absorptions aren't mere addition.

Just because you're saying it's cope doesn't mean it is. If anything that's huge projection simply because since you've scaled this way for whatever how long, you wouldn't dare change your mind.

Oh I see, then my goal is to spread the Truth of what I Know. Agenda doesn't always mean it's a bad thing then, it depends on who's using said tactic, drop the negative connotation as it's a neutral tool.

What suggests that it's inflated Dagon? You're literally speaking from a Cognitive Dissonance lense, don't lie 🫵. It isn't contrary at all but rather even more supported, tens of times meaning an indefinite large number in Japanese culture as we're casually talking about a Japanese creation being a Manga/Anime series. Here 🫴: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XJx6K0qxubZ8hO3yGQV0WA1m4jOsVD4UbEJ5qd2486Q/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

[Dagon]

@Hitrule You remind me of other agenda scalers.

There are specific limits to what is tens or hundreds or thousands in any language. It's like saying the Empire State Building is tens of times taller than a needle. It's a nonsensical comparison of the true amount is so far removed from the metric you're referring to.

Dragon Ball is known to go back on old concepts and revise them. Potara being permanent is one example.

I'm telling you this right now, if Potara was A x B battle power you're not only asking us to believe base Vegetto was millions and billions of times base Goku but that would have to extend to all the peripheral characters to be scaled in relation to that, Buuhan, Gotenks, etc. That's why I call it cope when you make other characters also monumentally wanked to fit in that point of view.

Not reading your biased document. We're done.

 

[Hitrule]

@Hitrule You remind me of other agenda scalers.

There are specific limits to what is tens or hundreds or thousands in any language. It's like saying the Empire State Building is tens of times taller than a needle. It's a nonsensical comparison of the true amount is so far removed from the metric you're referring to.

Dragon Ball is known to go back on old concepts and revise them. Potara being permanent is one example.

I'm telling you this right now, if Potara was A x B battle power you're not only asking us to believe base Vegetto was millions and billions of times base Goku but that would have to extend to all the peripheral characters to be scaled in relation to that, Buuhan, Gotenks, etc. That's why I call it cope when you make other characters also monumentally wanked to fit in that point of view.

Not reading your biased document. We're done.

One thing about me, is that I'm probably the only Power Scaler you've come across that doesn't scale with Bias, not 1%. One of my biggest pet peeves are Biased Scalers, especially those who try to spread things off as Infallible Truths. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, if I'm right then I'm right, but that everlasting PROOF has to be available until the end of my lifespan . Like I've already mentioned before, I'm a Man of Truth, Truth is all that matters to me whether we're talking Fiction or Non Fiction in the context of discussion/debate.

Many other sources say otherwise, if you get out your feelings and think logically then you'd know that what I'm saying is that Tens of Times or Dozens of Times can be as low as 24s or far beyond .

Yet you can't prove that they revised Potara or Fusion's increases, just Headcanon.

Looks like that's the case when you don't scale with a biased state of mind, you're subconsciously talking about yourself. And still didn't answer my question as to why it's wanked, as if Character A being millions of times beyond Character B is unacceptable/abnormal, yet it's shown countless times in the franchise.

Funny how you call it biased when you literally just admitted that you're not gonna read it, so how do you know that it's biased? Call me crazy but you instantly refusing to read it tells a lot, are you afraid that it'll shatter your stances? Deep down you know it will because Truth Always Reigns Supreme whether now or later [in your case], you'll accept it one of these days I promise, you're a smart guy.

 

[Dagon]

I think we've found Koruyssdo's dupe.

 

[Hitrule]

I think we've found Koruyssdo's dupe.

Who?

 

[Natasha Romanoff]

It lacks complete logical sense simply because you don't understand it (yet).

Sheesh, look at RoF. It happens.

What happened in RoF?

I never said Buutenks was Buu × Gotenks × Piccolo now did I? Elder Kai and Goku know how strong Fusion makes individuals. Also ties in with Goku not being too sure that fusing with Vegeta would guarantee them victory over Buuhan but yet they still tried it because it's the ultimate last resort. Ties back in with Buutenks not being serious the whole time which explains that, it's simple Power Scaling.

The actual quote in Viz said that Vegetto would be unbeatable and then Vegetto remarks how surprised he is by how he can stomp him, so at the very least, Vegetto > Expected Vegetto > Buu is pretty much implied.

Spoiler

One thing is holding back at effort and another to prolongue a fight (which Buu was due to making use of his limitless stamina) similar to Vegeta vs Freeza in which Freeza was torturing him, but is clearly unable to oneshot him, the gap in between Buu and Gohan is clearly not enough to oneshot, but to have a clear advantage.

And why isn't he that strong? The Daizenshuu puts him above SSJ3 Goku simply because SSJ3 was the highest transformation at the time (minus Ultimate if we'd consider that a "Transformation") and it shows he's even superior to that. For all we thought (now know), he could be just 2× over SSJ3 Goku, but based on scaling, he's dimensions above. We don't know how SSJ works with Fusion? Huh?

We don't have anything suggesting Base Vegetto being strong in the manga, as he is totally featless and only thing we have is him > than SSJ3 Goku, he can be that weak or that strong as you want him to be.

The gap between SSJ Gotenks and SSJ3 Gotenks seems to be smaller than the one in between Cell and Super Vegeta considering that Super Buu wasn't as dominant against that particular version of Gotenks (SSJ) than Cell was to Vegeta, and Super Buu is close if not equal to SSJ3 Gotenks.

Gotta check the Manga out again bro, that's all easily explained in good detail, or would you rather read my Power Scaling go overs? Otherwise you'll know why Goku was able to go toe to toe with him. You're forgetting about the Rival Boost too...

I take the rival boost as metaphorical as there no exists rivalry between Kaioshins, and Zamasu has always limitless stamina as he was able to even regenerate from being almost erased by a Hakai and have many ways to not get tired.

 

[Hitrule]

What happened in RoF?

The actual quote in Viz said that Vegetto would be unbeatable and then Vegetto remarks how surprised he is by how he can stomp him, so at the very least, Vegetto > Expected Vegetto > Buu is pretty much implied.

Spoiler

View attachment 2998View attachment 2999

One thing is holding back at effort and another to prolongue a fight (which Buu was due to making use of his limitless stamina) similar to Vegeta vs Freeza in which Freeza was torturing him, but is clearly unable to oneshot him, the gap in between Buu and Gohan is clearly not enough to oneshot, but to have a clear advantage.

We don't have anything suggesting Base Vegetto being strong in the manga, as he is totally featless and only thing we have is him > than SSJ3 Goku, he can be that weak or that strong as you want him to be.

The gap between SSJ Gotenks and SSJ3 Gotenks seems to be smaller than the one in between Cell and Super Vegeta considering that Super Buu wasn't as dominant against that particular version of Gotenks (SSJ) than Cell was to Vegeta, and Super Buu is close if not equal to SSJ3 Gotenks.

I take the rival boost as metaphorical as there no exists rivalry between Kaioshins, and Zamasu has always limitless stamina as he was able to even regenerate from being almost erased by a Hakai and have many ways to not get tired.

You're not aware of the well known God level Goku being struck down by a laser because he was off guard?

Ok, I agree.

Freeza couldn't one shot Vegeta? You use the term "clearly" loosely even though it's not clear at all but rather the opposite. If A could casually dominate B with a smile on his face the whole time, then he could one shot. You do know that a 9% difference is one shot capability in Dragon Ball right? And we know Buutenks is weeellllll over 9% (1.09×) stronger than Ultimate Gohan.

Yeah we do, Goku × Vegeta would be well beyond a SSJ3 increase, that's the whole point of fusing. To well surpass the previous limitations. Only thing we don't have is if Base Vegetto would be stronger than Buuhan since he just turned Super Saiyan.

What? Do you think every fight in Dragon Ball have to contain the same principles and logic? Super Buu is a completely different fighter than Vegeta. Super Buu wasn't even taking his fight against SSJ Gotenks seriously, so you wouldn't know that. That's some of the most headcanon shit I've ever heard. Did you ever hear of no effort fighting? Dude you're literally just coming up with any shit you could think of at this point.

Yet Rival Boost is what's literally said, there's no Rival Boost between the Supreme Kais because they aren't rivals with each other, it's that simple. And what about Zamasu?