Is this proof that Freeza>19?

[kriss-]

So tell me where Piccolo being suggested to be above Goku at that time isn't just Devil's Advocate. He's established to be below Vegeta and Trunks who aren't quite as powerful as Goku. I presented that example with that in mind. But he's still strong enough that the Cell Jr.s aren't so much stronger than him that they can knock him down with ease while toying with him, implying a non-astronomical gap.

Vegeta to fall lower than people from 3 years ago, then fall even lower that he gets weaker than #20 who's weaker than Trunks, Freeza and Goku from then necessitates very heavy losses. Losses I'm saying even Goku doesn't seem to have suffered in the Cell Games example. There, I've laid out all the points, counter them.

What point are you trying to make?

 

[Papasmurf]

I guess you're not even reading my posts then?

 

[kriss-]

I guess you're not even reading my posts then?

I'm drunk right now. Best we talk about it tomorrow.

 

[Fantastische Hure]

I guess you're not even reading my posts then?

I'm drunk right now. Best we talk about it tomorrow.

excusing ur db8ing??? -_- -_- -_-

 

[Papasmurf]

I guess you're not even reading my posts then?

I'm drunk right now. Best we talk about it tomorrow.

Log back in when you're sober then

 

[Southern Gothic]

Well, that was fun guys. Good hustle.

:clap

 

[kriss-]

I guess you're not even reading my posts then?

I'm drunk right now. Best we talk about it tomorrow.

excusing ur db8ing??? -_- -_- -_-

No, because I know I'm a great debater.

 

[Lightsworn]

I would agree had Krilin actually asked that question "Are you ready to take on someone stronger than Freeza?" But he doesn't ask that. He says that Cell is more terrible than Freeza and asks if that scares him or not. It's said in a way that that someone before that had not surpassed Freeza. Saying "This thing is even stronger than that android you fought, does that excite you or scare you? Now that would make complete sense and would be the perfect way to hype up Cell. It would almost be like hyping up Beerus by saying he is even stronger than Cell instead of saying he is stronger than Boo. It just doesn't make much sense in the context of the whole situation.

If Kuririn actually asked directly "Are you ready to take on someone stronger than Freeza?" then yeah it's immediately a throwaway statement (that's what I got from your post, anyway). I wish Kuririn had been more direct with what he said, but he just wasn't. Plus, like I said, I'd have most likely agreed with Freeza > 19/20 had it not been for evidence on their side (e.g. 19 post's ability to draw blood from Vegeta, Piccolo's statement on 20 post) that leads me to reevaluate everything.

Even if you want to take the word terrible to not just power, 19 and 20 are more terrible than Freeza anyway. 20 immediately tried to kill yamcha and they made it very clear they were planning on killing Goku and the Z fighters right away. Freeza toyed and never showed his full power until the very end.

I disagree. Freeza wanted planetary destruction and possibly universal domination. 20 wanted revenge on one person. We could go back and forth on this all day btw. It's subjective to us and it's subjective to the Z fighters, but since I've already explained why I find Kuririn talking about power straight-up to be weird, this is what I choose to go with instead.

I also said that it does have to be related to power to some extent or else Goku would have no reason to be afraid. Even if 19/20 were actually weaker than Freeza, asking "this guy's stronger than Freeza, does that scare/excite you?" is a pointless question anyway as I pointed out earlier: we already know the answer. Which is why I said that Kuririn is more saying that Cell's challenge to the current Z fighters will be worse than Freeza's challenge to the Z fighters on Namek. And he's right, seeing as how Goku could actually challenge Freeza back then, while no one can even challenge the androids, let alone a Cell who achieves his goal of becoming perfect.

19 and 20 would logicallly be used to add effect to the dire situation by Tien, Kami, and Clearin because that would make the most sense. When you're trying to hype up how strong a villain is, you use the second strongest villain as a comparison naturally. What purpose is there to use a villain that is far weaker?

Your last question, again, would apply even if 19/20 were weaker than Freeza. Freeza is nothing right now. He was offed by Trunks in no time. Trunks was weaker than Goku. Goku trained for 3 years. It makes zero sense to ask Goku if he's ready for someone stronger than Freeza. Of course he is. The statement isn't a simple "Cell > Freeza, are you ready?" in my opinion.

As for Tien and Kami's statements. Tien was talking about Trunks, so he just brought up Trunks's last milestone. There is nothing else to compare Trunks to, all Trunks has done so far is kill Freeza. Same goes for Kami. Plus, saying something like "they beat even Vegeta who was able to beat 19" has little significance on the casual reader since 19 has pretty much always been a non-threat (given the time he showed vs. the time Freeza was at large). It's worth considering sometimes that Toriyama's not writing the story for power level freaks like us (I probably sound hypocritical as hell saying that but whatever).

That's where I disagree. I don't believe Trunks is much stronger than Freeza and I don't believe he is weaker than Yardrat Goku. Freeza being mentioned 3 times by 3 different characters actually gives the opposite impression that he is "nothing" at this point.

I don't see a need for them to mention Trunks's feat of defeating Freeza. Based on the context, they're not just saying his feat for no reason at all or just because they feel like it. The statements were basically "Wow, this is the guy who took down Freeza...and even he couldn't beat the androids." It's said in a way thats like "Even having power capable of Freeza isn't enough to defeat the androids" if mentioning feats was so important, why not mention Vegeta's feat of defeating android 19 who is stronger than Ssj Trunks? Or Piccolo being able to defeat androids 20 who is also stronger than a Super Saiyan? Why only Trunks? What better way to hype up the androids than to say even 2 guys who can beat villains stronger than Super Saiyans stood no chance against the androids? Why is Freeza still so strongly in their minds? If 19/20 far surpassed Freeza, then they would strongly in their minds. Why would be weak sauce chump like Freeza who is one shot fodder even enter their minds at all during this situation but not the Super Saiyan tier villains? Your explanation was an out of universe explanation, what's your in universe explanation?

As far as other evidence, I don't see a problem with 19 drawing blood from Vegeta. First off all, there's no stated gap in order to make some one bleed. Second, Piccolo was much weaker than Nappa and still made him bleed and Freeza at less than half of his power made Ssj Goku bleed. Even Krilllin caused some damage on Goku at the 22nd Budokai despite Goku being far superior.

As far as Piccolo's quote, I actually don't that's reliable since it's based on a uncertainty and the whole situation is just one big delusion. It more of a statement about how he doesn't really care about how strong they are, but only about outcome of their fates, that their future has been changed.