Is this proof that Freeza>19?

[Fantastische Hure]

t0sh where tf are u???

 

[FutureProtagonist]

There's nothing to suggest that Android #19's power even doubled after absorbing Goku.

 

[Kyo]

He absorbed Goku?? What is he, Cell??? Krillin

 

[Papasmurf]

 

[Southern Gothic]

Just the fact that Vegeta is stated to be inferior to #20 after losing ki to #19 makes it shaky that Freeza would be above #20 pre if I'm being honest.

Well, he did get him some of that sweet Yamucha ki before battle.

 

[kriss-]

Just the fact that Vegeta is stated to be inferior to #20 after losing ki to #19 makes it shaky that Freeza would be above #20 pre if I'm being honest.

Key-word, 'losing Ki'.

 

[Papasmurf]

Just the fact that Vegeta is stated to be inferior to #20 after losing ki to #19 makes it shaky that Freeza would be above #20 pre if I'm being honest.

Well, he did get him some of that sweet Yamucha ki before battle.

True. Serious Yamcha is leagues above Piccolo and Vegeta according to the great Oolong.

 

[kriss-]

t0sh where tf are u???

I'm busy debating on another thread.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

Just the fact that Vegeta is stated to be inferior to #20 after losing ki to #19 makes it shaky that Freeza would be above #20 pre if I'm being honest.

Well, he did get him some of that sweet Yamucha ki before battle.

True. Serious Yamcha is leagues above Piccolo and Vegeta according to the great Oolong.

He's still getting turned into a Spopobitch.

 

[kriss-]

Just the fact that Vegeta is stated to be inferior to #20 after losing ki to #19 makes it shaky that Freeza would be above #20 pre if I'm being honest.

Well, he did get him some of that sweet Yamucha ki before battle.

True. Serious Yamcha is leagues above Piccolo and Vegeta according to the great Oolong.

See my reason stated above.

 

[Papasmurf]

Just the fact that Vegeta is stated to be inferior to #20 after losing ki to #19 makes it shaky that Freeza would be above #20 pre if I'm being honest.

Key-word, 'losing Ki'.

So much weaker that he would've lost to someone notably weaker than Mecha Freeza?

It's a good thing Yakon didn't regenerate and slice Goku's head off after he lost ki battling Majin Vegeta then.

 

[kriss-]

Just the fact that Vegeta is stated to be inferior to #20 after losing ki to #19 makes it shaky that Freeza would be above #20 pre if I'm being honest.

Key-word, 'losing Ki'.

So much weaker that he would've lost to someone notably weaker than Mecha Freeza?

It's a good thing Yakon didn't regenerate and slice Goku's head off after he lost ki battling Majin Vegeta then.

You can be as sarcastic as you want to, but I'm not seeing a reason as to why 20 & 19 pre have to be stronger than Frieza. I'm here to establish that they aren't. If you bring up a good reason, I'll nod my head and agree. But that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Papasmurf]

I'm not acting sarcastic. Goku being weakened to a point where he was visibly breathing heavily and requiring a senzu to keep fighting a tired Cell still only ended up weaker than Piccolo, who isn't suggested to be like 9 times weaker than himself at that point in time. Vegeta doesn't show trouble breathing but is stated to have weakened to a point where he'd have lost to #20. Obviously since there's a fair gap between his fresh self and #20 he'd have lost a good amount of ki, but he'd have to have gotten much weaker than Goku and Trunks from 3 years ago. I don't see that.

 

[kriss-]

Alright, I'm too drunk, I'll continue this tomorrow. But make sure you're ready for a counter.

 

[kriss-]

I'm not acting sarcastic. Goku being weakened to a point where he was visibly breathing heavily and requiring a senzu to keep fighting a tired Cell still only ended up weaker than Piccolo, who isn't suggested to be like 9 times weaker than himself at that point in time. Vegeta doesn't show trouble breathing but is stated to have weakened to a point where he'd have lost to #20. Obviously since there's a fair gap between his fresh self and #20 he'd have lost a good amount of ki, but he'd have to have gotten much weaker than Goku and Trunks from 3 years ago. I don't see that.

Goku never fought Cell until the Cell Games.

 

[Papasmurf]

I'm not acting sarcastic. Goku being weakened to a point where he was visibly breathing heavily and requiring a senzu to keep fighting a tired Cell still only ended up weaker than Piccolo, who isn't suggested to be like 9 times weaker than himself at that point in time. Vegeta doesn't show trouble breathing but is stated to have weakened to a point where he'd have lost to #20. Obviously since there's a fair gap between his fresh self and #20 he'd have lost a good amount of ki, but he'd have to have gotten much weaker than Goku and Trunks from 3 years ago. I don't see that.

Goku never fought Cell until the Cell Games.

That example is from the Cell Games.

 

[kriss-]

I'm not acting sarcastic. Goku being weakened to a point where he was visibly breathing heavily and requiring a senzu to keep fighting a tired Cell still only ended up weaker than Piccolo, who isn't suggested to be like 9 times weaker than himself at that point in time. Vegeta doesn't show trouble breathing but is stated to have weakened to a point where he'd have lost to #20. Obviously since there's a fair gap between his fresh self and #20 he'd have lost a good amount of ki, but he'd have to have gotten much weaker than Goku and Trunks from 3 years ago. I don't see that.

Goku never fought Cell until the Cell Games.

That example is from the Cell Games.

Okay I'll counter you with:

'Did Piccolo do anything to suggest he was above Goku Ssj'?

 

[Papasmurf]

Specify which Piccolo, which Goku.

 

[kriss-]

Specify which Piccolo, which Goku.

Piccolo at the Cell Games & Goku when he powered up to full power.

 

[Papasmurf]

So tell me where Piccolo being suggested to be above Goku at that time isn't just Devil's Advocate. He's established to be below Vegeta and Trunks who aren't quite as powerful as Goku. I presented that example with that in mind. But he's still strong enough that the Cell Jr.s aren't so much stronger than him that they can knock him down with ease while toying with him, implying a non-astronomical gap.

Vegeta to fall lower than people from 3 years ago, then fall even lower that he gets weaker than #20 who's weaker than Trunks, Freeza and Goku from then necessitates very heavy losses. Losses I'm saying even Goku doesn't seem to have suffered in the Cell Games example. There, I've laid out all the points, counter them.