Most accurate Dragon Ball Battle Powers [with explanations]

ahill1

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Okay, I'll be doing a Dragon Ball battle power list [from then end of the Uranai Baba saga Tournament to the end of the 23rd Budokai Tournament] and putting up explanations as for why I do have such battle powers, or for why this "A>B>C" would be the most accurate thing, as well as displaying quotes and everything else. Hope this can serve as a basis for anyone who wishes to do a Dragon Ball battle power list [pre Raditz] or for anyone who wants a "heads up" on which character should be the strongest and so on.

This'll obviously take a lot of effort and time, so appreciation is always welcomed. :9000


22nd Budokai Tenkaichi

Let's settle Goku [from Uranai Baba Saga] as a 100, and start doing things from there.

Firstly, it's worth noting that everyone from the main cast is confident that they'll be the winners this time... Yamcha and Kuririn are even overconfident in the Airplane, not even remembering Goku or Jackie Chun and treating each other as bigger deals. Bulma or Oolong both try to remember them about those contenders, but they seem to pay no attention. They are in their little world and only thinking in themselves. I agree that it's somewhat strange how the power that once was treated like a God, Goku from Uranai Baba, not being so relevant to the big guys anymore (Yamcha, Kuririn and etc.) and how that power, as well as Son Gohan's seem to be already old news, but that's kind of a common theme in Dragon Ball. As similar examples, we can cite Trunks as a SSJ being introducced as a rather big deal, easily killing Freeza, the former super villain, and quickly being diregarded before the new threats (the androids)... or how Raditz's power, that seemed to be in a different level compared to everything we have seen before is also quickly disregarded once we get to know about the two Saiyajins way stronger than him. That's kind of a common theme in Dragon Ball. So, we get everyone being confident that their power is high enough that even Goku's former power will pose no challenge:

oehRJn6.png


They seem somewhat interested and worried about Goku's progress, specially after seeing how Goku came swimming from the opposite side of the Earth, but they still seem pretty confident in their chances. It's fine to see that they still seem sweating at the prospect of Goku getting stronger, but what seem to worry them the most is the unknown power that Goku might have... the power he had at the Uranain Baba Tournament is something they can handle, otherwise they wouldn't even consider the prospect of winning the Tournament. That statement came right after seeing how Goku put his body through an extreme effort through swimming from a different country until there, which obviously implies Goku was no merely joking those past three years, although Goku's psyque as well as the way he acts make it sound like he hasn't progressed that much or hasn't even progressed, which goes back to what Kuririn stated before:

IEhC4wk.png


Goku looks soft in the outside, but is still a monster in the inside. It seems the thought of Goku getting stronger seems to scare them a bit, but mainly because they can't know how much stronger he got... it's still kind of a mystery.

Jackie Chun is also pretty confident about the champion title belonging to him once again, which shows he also surpassed Goku's old power, but like the others he still seems somewhat worried about Goku's progress:

VzmH7tO.png



So, at the first chain, we'd have:

Jackie Chun, Yamcha and Kuririn >> Son Goku [Uranai Baba Tournament]

Even so, they still seem somewhat worried about Goku's progress.




Yamcha fights first, defeats some random guy with one punch, then Kuririn defeats some giant-sized man in an also very convincing fashion, throwing him out of bounds. And then, it's Goku's turn, and it's against King-Chappa/Chappa-o. Everyone thinks Goku has found himself in a sticky match from the beginning, and that they'll finally get to see how strong Goku has gotten. Jackie Chun/Kame-Sen'nin at least thinks it:

Y3etT0e.png


Linked with Jackie Chun's comment above that they'd now finally get too see how much stronger Goku has gotten, I think it's fine to believe Chappa-o is above Goku from three years ago. Jackie Chun believed Goku progressed, but is still setted at uneasy with the thought of Goku fighting him. Yamcha also thinks the same. Kuririn doesn't know the guy:


Chappa-o > Goku {Uranai Baba saga]

In battle powers, we can give Chappa-o a noticeable advantage, but not a very big one, considering Yamcha still seems to think Goku can manage something even when he doesn't know whether Goku got stronger or not:

Son Goku [Uranai Baba saga] : 100
Chappa-o : 110


Those kind of comments seem to mirror Jackie Chun's comments regarding Goku's chances against Mummy, don't you think? The kind of reaction is basically the same... the old Goku might not have a chance, but what about the new progressed one?

Then Goku begins fighting this new challenge... starts handling him swiflty, letting everyone with a :shock reaction. Then everyone has seen Goku has progressed and significantly so. Yamcha and Jackie Chun are already impressed by how fast Goku is as soon as he throws the first punch. Kuririn and Yamcha doesn't believe how fast Goku is to block all those attacks from Chappa-o and get even more surprised that Goku has stopped himself into the air with a blast of expelled breath.

Everyone sees then that Goku was not joking during those three years and is there as a real contender. They get even more surprised at the prospect of Goku not putting nearly everything he had got into the fight. Then at that moment the heroes start shaking into their boots at Goku's mighty. But it's worthy noting that both Yamcha and Kuririn are still in the game... they didn't lose their confidence.

Upon seeing that Jackie Chun has also gotten considerably stronger and polished his skills over him fighting a random fighter, Yamcha thinks this will be an astonishing Tournament:

grDhBi5.png


This shows he still hasn't given up his chances at the Tournamet... he is in the game yet, just thinking it will surely be a rather tough Tournament. Kame-Sen'nin also gives us an interesting comment:

Kame-Sennin: I have watched the prelims. Everynone of you may win this Tournament

According to him, any one of them might win the prize money. This seems more than a general comment to incentivate them, considering every one of them seem to agree and say they'll do their best. This would only make sense if the power that Goku displayed against Chappa was still significantly below Yamcha and Kuririn's, otherwise Goku's comment that "he didn't use nearly everything" would be enough to shatter their confidence. It's true that they seem very surprised at Goku's prowess against Chappa-o, but so was Kame-Sen'nin, who should be also way above that displayed power going by scaling.

So, we have so far:

Yamcha ~ Kuririn ~ Son Goku [unknown power] >> Son Goku [displayed power against Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]

Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku - still unknown



^ Some rough estimations.


Then, we move on to our first battle in the Tournament, and Yamcha and Tenshinhan get to face each other. Both seem completely even until Tenshinhan begins using more of his powers and get the upper hand. Yamcha then uses his trick (the KMHMH), but not even that is enough to stop Tenshinhan's mighty, who swiflty bounces that back and knocks Yamcha into the ground easily. Goku still seems to think the power they both were displaying when initially fighting to be amazing, and call them both awesome. This would also lend credence to this fight being at a higher level than the power Goku used to deal with Chappa.

At the end of the fight, Tsuru-Sen'nin says Tenshinhan has still more to show than what he displayed in the fight, obviously indicating Tenshinhan wasn't at full power. Then, we get:

Tenshinhan [full power] >> Tenshinhan [using more power] >> Yamcha ~ Tenshinhan [initial] ~ Kuririn >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba]


Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150*
Tenshinhan [initially] : 150
Tenshinhan [more power, but still not full power] : 200


*We know that Yamcha and Kuririn are evenly matched due to a comment given later.


Then, we move on to Jackie vs Man-Wolf... not much to comment... Jackie Chun easily dominates the man who held a grudge at him for destrying the moon. The fight at least makes Tenshinhan kind of interested in him. Goku also comments how Jackie is good, but that's about it. Jackie ends up hypnotizing the man using Kuririn's head, turning him into a pretty handsome man again!

Then, we move on to Kuririn vs Chaozu. Kuririn thinks the pale one is rather enigmatic and that he shoud have payed attention to his fighting style. They both start fighting pretty evenly, although it's worth noting that Kuririn kind of got caught off guard by Chaozu flying at him all of a sudden. Kuririn moves so fast that Chaozu can't see him, hits him, but then Chaozu kind of regains his composure and they both go to fight evenly, until Chaozu makes use of his Bukujutsu, to which Kuririn is annoyed. Chaozu starts spamming Dodonpas, Tenshinhan learns that Goku knows about Tao Pai Pai and that he was "killed" by him. Things start getting more personal, to the point Chaozu is instructed to kill Kuririn. Kuririn uses the moment Chaozu fires the Dodonpa to hit him with a KMHMH, which visibly hurts Chaozu, who is already panting. Then we see that Chaozu can't take a hand to hand combat anymore--probably because he was damaged by the KMHMH -- and is forced to use his paralysis technique, causing a stomachache in Kuririn. Kuririn notices that Chaozu has to make use of his hands and makes use of a strategy to make Chaozu not use his hands and after a lot of wiggle, Chaozu is knocked out of the ring.

We kind of see that both were kind of evenly matched in the hand to hand combat, but Kuririn seemed to have a lead, and seemed to be too fast for Chaozu some times. It's fine to put Chaozu at 140, I guess. Maybe a bit higher (considering that'd make up for a 93% gap), but let's opt for a cleaner number.


Tenshinhan [full power] >> Tenshinhan [using more power] >> Yamcha ~ Tenshinhan [initial] ~ Kuririn >= Chaozu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba]


Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150*
Tenshinhan [initially] : 150
Tenshinhan [more power, but still not full power] : 200


Goku easily defeats Panpoot, that wasn't even a fight considering the quickness of it, but I think we can safely put Panpoot at 21st Budokai Goku's level consideirng their feat of breaking up the arena wall seem to kind of match each other. But, considering the scale starts with Uranai Baba Goku, we won't include Panpoot, who was seemingly a very gifted kickboxer, from the looks of it. Tenshinhan and Tsuru are impressed by Goku taking him down the way he did, altough Kuririn isn't impressed, nor is Kame-Sen'nin.

Then, we move onto Tenshinhan vs Jackie Chun. Kuririn thinks Jackie has got this, but Goku isn't so sure and says this Tenshinhan guy is rather strong. Kuririn is impressed at the thought of Jackie Chun matching up to Tenshinhan, which is kind of weird, but ok. I don't see a reason for Tenshinhan to start with a lower level against Jackie Chun than the one he used to defeat Yamcha, specially seeing that he also seemed to treat Jackie Chun as a bigger deal.

Both have a pretty evenly match from the beginning, but Tenshinhan seems to take advantage by seeing through Jackie Chun's technique with his third eye. Jackie Chun says he has to get serious, takes off his shirt, quickly catches Tenshinhan's hands and kicks him away. That probably shows he increased his effort, like he himself said:

Jackie Chun [getting serious] > Tenshinhan [initially] >= Jackie Chun [initially]

Then, it seems Tenshinhan increases his speed as well, given Jackie Chun's reaction when he charges at him:

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Jackie Chun regains composure from Tenshinhan's assualt, and retaliates. Both are pretty impressed with each other's abilities. Then, to sum it up, we have Tenshinhan starting at the level he used to knock Yamcha out... Jackie Chun matches up to that level, but seems to get in a slight disadvantage... then Jackie Chun increases his level and seems to hold an advantage over Tenshinhan, who also shows more of his power and gets once again evenly matched with jacke Chun. Then:

Jackie Chun [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tenshinhan [knocking out Yamcha] >= Jackie Chun [initially]

Tenshinhan says this old geezer is better than Tsuru-Sen'nin, but it's worth noting he says it just once Jackie Chun increases his effort, meaning his initial level was still, in all likelihood, at most equal to Tsuru. With this, we can conclude that Tsuru's gap over Yamcha and Kuririn is rather considerable... even Jackie Chun's initial level, who seems to match up to the level Tenshinhan used to knock out Yamcha, still isn't above Tsuru, and he just gets such recognition when leveling up. Tenshinhan makes use of the Taiyo-ken, kicking Jackie Chun in the top of his head, who still recovers, although still feeling pain. Tenshinhan is obviously flabbergasted at such old man and wonders who is him. He then gets told he is Kame-Sen'nin, who tries to get Tenshinhan to the good side and bla bla bla. But so far, we have:


Jackie Chun [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Sen'nin >= Jackie Chun [initial] ~ Tenshinhan [initial] >> Yamcha ~ Kuririn >= Chaozu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]



Son Goku [Uranai Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha/Kuririn : 150
Tenshinhan [initially] : 200
Jackie Chun [initially] : 190
Tsuru Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240



Then, we get told by Tenshinhan that Jackie Chun wasn't even using his full power, and that the reason to which he gave up wasn't because he was afraid of losing. He knew Jackie Chun had more to offer. It's somewhat vague whether it's meant to be Jackie Chun's techniques or his full strength, but since Tenshinhan used the term full power, I am going ahead and assume he meant his strength:

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Then, Tenshinhan is still a little confused about Jackie Chun, go ask him some things, and it then begins Goku vs Kuririn. Kuririn says an interesting thing at the beginning of the match:

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Whilst it's obvious that Goku still fought Kuririn at less than full power, Kuririn didn't seem to realize it until Goku pointed out, nor did he called Goku out because of it, which would have been kind of obvious if Goku was still fighting at the same level he used against Chappa-o, a level Goku himself made clear that was still far from his full power. They were evenly matched, but I have the feeling Goku was a little ahead considering Kuririn still made use of some strategies to get the upper hand, exploiting the sun light and things like this, similar to Cabba in his fight against Vegeta in Super.


Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] >> Son Goku [vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]


Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240



Then, Goku made clear that he stil wasn't fighting seriusly, to which Kuririn was like "Darn, what did I tell you?". Goku then used more effort and easily knocked Kuririn down, but he still didn't seem as dominant as Tenshinhan was when knocking Yamcha down, considering Tenshinhan basically one-shotted Yamcha after easily bouncing his KMHMH back. So, if Tenshinhan [finishing Yamcha] is a 200, let's say Goku [more effort, vs Kuririn] is a 180, still plenty to have a significant advantage against Kuririn.

0126-007.png


Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]


Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240



Kuririn still tries to defy Son Goku to a h2h and upon seeing he is no match, he opts to change strategy. He tries to exploit Goku's tail and when seeing it fails, tries the classic "look at that". Goku then opts to cut loose even more and uses a so high speed that Kuririn could only hear the noisy of his steps. Goku then suddenly appears and knocks him out of the ring. Tenshinhan starts to realize how strong Goku is, Tsuru-Sen'nin says Goku might have been able to have defeated Tao Pai Pai (GO FUCK YOURSELF, TAO SHOULD HAVE BEEN LONG FODDER, DON'T BRING HIM), and Kame-Sen'nin gives us an interesting comment:

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I don't see why Kame wouldn't be considering his full power since he tells it to himself, so it's possible the power Goku used to ditch out Kuririn is already beyond Kame-Sen'nin's unseen FP. He was still uncertain, so they ought to be close. Also, it's somewhat funny how Kame-Sen'nin only gets surpassed by such level, while the level Goku used against Chappa-o was already enough to scare him... good old Toriyama-sensei!!!


Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] >= Kame-Sen'nin [full power] >> Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]

Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Kame-Sen'nin [full power] : 300
Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] : 315



Then Tenshinhan says that against Goku, he might be able to have an enjoyable fight:

DSAbLYo.png


That's kind of an strange comment... what is Tenshinhan getting at? That against Kame-Sen'nin he didn't have an enjoyable match? That seems strange, even moreso when he seemed to hold Kame in a high pedestal to the point of feeling bothered with his surrender. Maybe since he thought he'd have Kuririn as his opponent when Kuririn had Goku's tail and Goku was mocking around, he is just kind of saying "against Kuririn it'd be a rather boring fight, but now since it turned down he is my opponent, I'll have an entertaining fight?". Fuel for thought, though.


Then, Kame-Sen'nin thinks that will be a pretty interesting match and that he should get a better spot to watch it, besides saying Kuririn may never see a match like that again. He seems to be already treating Goku and Tenshinhan as his superior from the get go, and it seems the level both Tenshinhan and Goku started at during their fight is already higher than Kame-Sen'nin could reach at his maximum power 'output', even more so considering he was surprised when Tenshinhan seemingly revealed to have more power (calling tenshinhan's attacks so fast that he seemed a gun machine), as well as being surprised at the prospect of Goku hiding another entirely different level. It might seem a little hard to swallow, but it seems to be implying Kame-Sen'nin isn't much to Goku and Tenshinhan at their full power.

They both seemed evenly matched, with Goku enduring Ten's Dodonpa, until Goku got caught by Tenshinhan when using his suoer fast technique. Goku wasn't injured by the attacks, and revealed he was hiding his full power, to which Tenshinhan referred to as "another level of power":

0129-008.png

Goku then easily starts dominating Tenshinhan with this new level of power, forcing Tenshinhan to be then, fully serious. So, all in all, it seems the level Tenshinhan started to fight Goku at is the level Kame-Sen'nin estimated to be "probably able to defeat him", which fits nicely with him also saying the power Goku displayed when finishing Kuririn is "maybe above his own" and also fits nicely with him thinking that would be a very good match, then obviously estimating Goku's FP and Tenshinhan's FP as being the "one used to defeat Kuririn" and "the one used initially in the match", respectively. It's likely Tenshinhan already begun using more power initially in their fight than the leve Roshi estimated him to be at, consodering Roshi seemed pretty surprised at his speed. So, we have all in all:


Son Goku [full power] >= Tenshinhan [full power] >>> Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] ~ Tenshinhan [initially vs Goku, estimated to be his FP by Roshi] >= Kame-Sen'nin [full power] >> Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]




Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Kame-Sen'nin [full power] : 300
Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] : 315
Tenshinhan [initially, vs Goku] : 315
Tenshinhan [full power] : 400
Son Goku [full power] : 420


And then, that would be it for the 22nd Budokai. I kind of tried to bloat things a little considering it's heavily implied Cymbal is above both Kuririn and Yamcha from the 22nd Budokai, yet many times weaker than Tambourine, who should still be a notch or two behind the two finalists, whether Goku got a Zenkai or not.


Then, we move onto the Piccolo Daimao Saga:

Piccolo Daimao Saga


Firstly, we get a heavy blow! Kuririn gets killed, awakening the anger inside Goku, who recklessly goes on to avenge his murder. It's true that Kuririn was aready tired from the 22nd Budokai, but the way Kame-Sen'nin said later implies that the result would have been the same whether he was 100% or not:

rlLiPis.png


So far, what we can get from that is that this mysteryous fella is >> Kuririn and Yamcha, but presumably below 100% Goku, considering Kame-Sen'nin said Goku didn't have a chance because he was exhausted. Still, it's just an assumption, since Kame-Sen'nin didn't know nothing about this guy.

Then Kame learns it's a work of Piccolo Daimao and begins to tell how fearsome he is. He says that not even himself and Tsuru when younger couuld stand up to him, and not even their master:

a3jXSfw.png


"Even younger, I was no match for him" --> I think that's a clear indication that Kame-Sen'nin was more bestowed with power at the time he faced Piccolo Daimao, which means Young Kame-Sen'nin >> Current Kame-Sen'nin, who is already enough to let Yamcha and Kuririn in the dust. Now, it's somewhat vague how that young Kame compares to Goku and Tenshinhan, but many people see his speech as an indication that he was also stronger than both Goku and Tenshinhan when young. I don't see it so clearly, but it's a fair assessment; so far, we have, encompassing the 22nd Budokai chain:


Mutaito > Kame Sen'nin [young] >=< Tsuru Sen'nin [young] > Son Goku [full power] }= Tenshinhan [full power] >>> Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] ~ Tenshinhan [initially vs Goku, estimated to be his FP by Roshi] >= Kame-Sen'nin [full power] >> Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]

Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Kame-Sen'nin [full power] : 300
Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] : 315
Tenshinhan [initially, vs Goku] : 315
Tenshinhan [full power] : 400
Son Goku [full power] : 420
Young Kame/Tsuru : 450
Mutaito : 500


Then, moving on, we get to see that Goku isn't a match for Tambourine, but Goku still says an interesting thing:

qjPKPJe.png


Goku says that if he had something to eat, Tambourine would be a small fry. Whilst it's possible Goku was counting he'd get stronger than he was at the Budokai, I think the easiest approach here is "Goku/Tenshinhan 22nd >> Tambourine". You could take it as Goku taking a Zenkai into account though, although Goku didn't seem near dead nor anything...

Tambourine then destroys Goku's kintoun and knocks him out into the jungle, where he'd get to meet the Great Yajirobe!!

Yajirobe is mad that Goku ate his fish, and Goku also thinks Yajirobe is in cahoots with the monster that killed his friend. This gives them a reason to go all out against each other, and we saw that Yajirobe's headbutt could deal pain into Goku and that Goku's all out assault didn't inflict any pain into Yajirobe. Goku then says Yajirobe is the strongest person he has ever met, and meanwhile Yajirobe says Goku is the toughest person he has ever met. Both are sweating and seem to think that they'd be having problems to deal with the other. Goku is probably the stronger one, given that Yajirobe is hella impressed at Goku felling Daimao on his butt, but I figure they are at least more or less on the same general level.

Alright, moving on, we see that Yajirobe finds some problems in dealing with Cymbal initially, but quickly deals with him when deciding that the warm up is over. Goku is again impressed with Yajirobe's prowess.

Piccolo Daimao tells Tambourine then that Cymbal was killed, and Tambourine gets really impressed... I used to think that's a solid indication of Cymbal's superiority over Kuririn and Yamcha, since Tambourine had defeated Kuririn and yet was surprised Cymbal was killed by someone, but the truth is that Kuririn probably wasn't at 100% considering there wasn't much time since he went all out in the Tournament. Still, it's kind of doubtful that Kuririn was far from his full power, considering Kame-Sen'nin seemed to think the result -- of Kuririn getting killed -- would be the same if he were at FP --. So, maybe it's fair to say Cymbal is at the same level as Kuririn and Yamcha, so at 150, right? Piccolo Daimao says then that Tambourine is many times stronger than Cymbal:

3q4zBal.png


If we take "several times" to mean "at least 3", then Tambourine would have been at least a 450 -- stronger than 22nd Goku and Tenshinhan -- which seems to be a problem based on what was said earlier. But, considering the Kaio'ken technique has already been referred as a technique that multiplies the power of the user by many times, even though the regular Kaioken just doubles the user's power, I think having Tambourine 2x Cymbal -- therefore at 300 -- is fine. That'd also make him exactlly = 22nd Budokai Kame-Sen'nin, which many people argue it's fair.

Goku, now with a full stomach, easily takes care of Tambourine, also surprising Yajirobe, who seems to think it's best no to make Goku mad. It's still up into the air whether Goku got a boost after eating that fish compared to his 22nd Budokai self, but we then got an interesting comment from Piccolo Daimao after defeating Goku:

3CmZkVu.png


VIZ is a bit vague on this, but according to Herms' translations, Piccolo has said that Goku is "as far as a Human could go", which, all pretenses aside, would indicate he is possibly even stronger than Mutaito, whom we had concluded earlier to be stronger than 22nd Budokai Goku. Based on this, Goku got a considerable increase after recovering from his exhaustive match and from Tambourine's beatdown; now, we get a nice chain:


Son Goku [post 22nd Budokai] > Yajirobe ~ Mutaito > Kame Sen'nin [young] >=< Tsuru Sen'nin [young] > Son Goku [full power] }= Tenshinhan [full power] >>> Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] ~ Tenshinhan [initially vs Goku, estimated to be his FP by Roshi] >= Tambourine ~ Kame-Sen'nin [full power] >> Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]

Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Kame-Sen'nin [full power] : 300
Tambourine : 300
Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] : 315
Tenshinhan [initially, vs Goku] : 315
Tenshinhan [full power] : 400
Son Goku [full power] : 420
Young Kame/Tsuru : 450
Mutaito : 500
Yajirobe : 500
Son Goku : 560


I decided to place Yajirobe at Mutaito's level, which seems fair all things considered... Yajirobe didn't seem to have so much of a disadvantage compared to Goku, and I don't think Goku [post 22nd Budokai] has to be so much above Mutaito... only enough so that Piccolo would realize he is the threshold of a human's power, or at least he thought.

We get then that Piccolo, when not even using half of his power, completely decimated Goku, and had so much of a power advantage that he could walk through Goku's KMHMH while not even feeling anything. Piccolo is a beast!

0143-014.png

Then, Piano even goes on to say that Piccolo will get so much stronger when getting his youth back that his current power will be nothing compared to what he will become. That is hilarious!! Young Piccolo Daimao is capable of dwarfing the 100% of someone who defeated Goku using less than 50%... think about the awesomeness of Piccolo!!

LSbnxcp.png


And Piano was right: When Piccolo got his youth back, he said he was overflowing with power, which would indicate that even his initial power when young is already enough to blow out even his hypothetical 100% when old, even moreso when Piano didn't seem to think Piccolo could power up more when Young considering how tense he was when Goku was getting the best of him post Choushinsui, a very different reaction that we got when Piano said they shouldn't worry about Goku getting the best out of Piccolo Daimao Old, since he still wasn't using anything close to his FP! That may indicate that, for Piano, initial Young Piccolo Daimao is already on a different level compared to his old self! WHat a beast!

Piccolo Daimao [young, initial] >>> Piccolo Daimao old [100%] >>>> Piccolo Daimao old [40%] >>> Son Goku [post 22nd Budokai] > Yajirobe ~ Mutaito > Kame Sen'nin [young] >=< Tsuru Sen'nin [young] > Son Goku [full power] }= Tenshinhan [full power] >>> Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] ~ Tenshinhan [initially vs Goku, estimated to be his FP by Roshi] >= Tambourine ~ Kame-Sen'nin [full power] >> Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]



Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Kame-Sen'nin [full power] : 300
Tambourine : 300
Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] : 315
Tenshinhan [initially, vs Goku] : 315
Tenshinhan [full power] : 400
Son Goku [full power] : 420
Young Kame/Tsuru : 450
Mutaito : 500
Yajirobe : 500
Son Goku : 560
Piccolo Daimao old [<50%] : 1,000
Piccolo Daimao old [100%] : 2,500
Piccolo Daimao young [initial] : 5,000


Then, we have Drum... we see that Tenshinhan is no match for him, but since Goku probably got a considerable Zenkai after the 22nd Budokai, his feats against Tenshinhan shouldn't even be enough to put him above Son Goku [killing Tambourine], honestly... BUT, we see that Piccolo Daimao is fully confident that Drum would be plenty to kill Son Goku, implying Drum is also beyond Son Goku's post 22nd Budokai reach.

0154-014.png

But still, considering Tenshinhan could inflict some slight pain to Drum through a Headbutt and considering that < 50% Piccolo Daimao could completely walk through a KMHMH from a significantly stronger Goku, I think it's fair to say Drum is still not at the level Old Piccolo used to beat Goku. We can then fit Drum between post 22nd Budokai Goku and < 50% old Piccolo Daimao.


Piccolo Daimao [young, initial] >>> Piccolo Daimao old [100%] >>>> Piccolo Daimao old [40%] >> Drum >> Son Goku [post 22nd Budokai] > Yajirobe ~ Mutaito > Kame Sen'nin [young] >=< Tsuru Sen'nin [young] > Son Goku [full power] }= Tenshinhan [full power] >>> Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] ~ Tenshinhan [initially vs Goku, estimated to be his FP by Roshi] >= Tambourine ~ Kame-Sen'nin [full power] >> Kame-Sen'nin [more serious] ~ Tenshinhan [more serious] > Tsuru-Se'nin > Kame-Sen'nin ~ Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] > Son Goku [more serious] > Son Goku [initially, vs Kuririn] >= Kuririn ~ Yamcha >= Chaouzu >> Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] >> Chappa-o > Son Goku [Uranai Baba Saga]


Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Kame-Sen'nin [full power] : 300
Tambourine : 300
Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] : 315
Tenshinhan [initially, vs Goku] : 315
Tenshinhan [full power] : 400
Son Goku [full power] : 420
Young Kame/Tsuru : 450
Mutaito : 500
Yajirobe : 500
Son Goku : 560
Drum : 700
Piccolo Daimao old [<50%] : 1,000
Piccolo Daimao old [100%] : 2,500
Piccolo Daimao young [initial] : 5,000

Son Goku gets so strong post Chshinsui that he has an advantage over Piccolo Daimao. Goku's dominance still didn't seem to be so big, considering Piccolo could make him use some effort, like here:

6hZcAh2.png


But he was still dominating Piccolo.


Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Kame-Sen'nin [full power] : 300
Tambourine : 300
Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] : 315
Tenshinhan [initially, vs Goku] : 315
Tenshinhan [full power] : 400
Son Goku [full power] : 420
Young Kame/Tsuru : 450
Mutaito : 500
Yajirobe : 500
Son Goku : 560
Drum : 700
Piccolo Daimao old [<50%] : 1,000
Piccolo Daimao old [100%] : 2,500
Piccolo Daimao young [initial] : 5,000
Son Goku post Water, initial : 6,000


Still, Piccolo seemed to have been hiding so much power that he thought he could have easily killed the Goku who was dominating his with such power. So Piccolo [100%] should have been able to easily shatter the power Goku was using to handle him, but he seemed hesitant in using it because it would shorten his life span.

Goku then also admitted he has been holding back, and his full power was still enough to hold a slight advantage over Piccolo Daimao, obviously to a lesser extent, compared to the advantage he had when both were holding back, obviously:


Son Goku [Baba] : 100
Chappa-o : 110
Son Goku [vs Chappa-o] : 130
Chaozu : 140
Yamcha : 150
Kuririn : 150
Son Goku [vs Kuririn. initially] : 160
Son Goku [vs Kuririn, more serious] : 180
Jackie Chun [initially, vs Ten] : 190
Tenshinhan [knocking down Yamcha] : 200
Tsuru-Sen'nin : 210
Jackie Chun [more serious] : 240
Tenshinhan [more serious] : 240
Kame-Sen'nin [full power] : 300
Tambourine : 300
Son Goku [finishing Kuririn] : 315
Tenshinhan [initially, vs Goku] : 315
Tenshinhan [full power] : 400
Son Goku [full power] : 420
Young Kame/Tsuru : 450
Mutaito : 500
Yajirobe : 500
Son Goku : 560
Drum : 700
Piccolo Daimao old [<50%] : 1,000
Piccolo Daimao old [100%] : 2,500
Piccolo Daimao young [initial] : 5,000
Son Goku post Water, initial : 6,000
Piccolo Daimao [full power] : 12,000
Son Goku [100%] : 12,500


And... I will do the 23rd Budokai later. Kind of tired already.
 

SSJ2

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Jesus, you did this just today? I'm approaching this section of the manga in my reread so I'll comment once I'm there.
 

ahill1

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SSJ2 said:
Jesus, you did this just today? I'm approaching this section of the manga in my reread so I'll comment once I'm there.

Yeah, I spent like 4 hours writing all that lol. Okay, willing to see your review!!

Oh, and there's still the 23rd Budokai later as well!!
 

SSJ2

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If I don't get back to it soon remind me in a couple days. I'm trying to get through the RRA arc right now, but it's fucking hard to find the motivation lol.
 

ahill1

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Fixed some grammar errors (which were unavoidable since I am using a tablet)... might be better to read now.
 

ahill1

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Respect the wall of text!!

BTW, I have gotten the "Goku [vs chappa-o] << Yamcha and Kuririn" from you man, I wouldn't have added that up. So you contributed to this wall of text.
 

ahill1

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Fantastische Hure said:
Yamcha said he thought no-one could defeat Chapa-o that easily though.

Might have to do with the way Chappa-o was portrayed by "the legend", as being a martial artist that seemed a God amongst the other ones, so seeing he being defeated so easily might seem a bit hard to swallow. But like you can see, Yamcha's confidence wasn't shattered even after hearing that Goku [defeating Chappa-o] was far from Full Power, and if Yamcha were still below the Goku who defeated Chappa, he obviously should have known he was screwed in the Tournament. He still merely says this will be a rather flamboyant tournament upon seeing Kame-Sennin polished his skills even more, which shows he was still serious in winning such Tournament, even moreso when we have Kame-Sen'nin himself stating that everyone might win the Tournament.

Kuririn, who is about as strong as Yamcha, was fighting evenly with a Goku potentially considerably stronger than the one who battled Chappa-o, considering that Goku not using full power against him wasn't that obvious until Goku told him it.

I might argue that their reactions towards the power Goku battled Chappa-o is somewhat weird, but it's worth noting that Kame-Sen'nin also seems rather surprised, even going as far as to say things could be bad for him, even though we know that not even the power used to defeat Kuririn was enough to completely convince him he was surpassed. It's structured in a strange way, but clear cut statements like everyone having a shot in winning the Tournament should take precedence over their opinions on the power Goku used to battle Chappa-o, specially when Kame-Sen'nin is also within those rather surprised by Goku's performance.
 

Future Warrior

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This looks pretty damn good man. Just have a few nitpicks though...

1. There's really no evidence to say that Roshi was making a comparison from his young self and his master to Goku to show he stands no chance against Piccolo.

2. Nothing indicates Kuririn lost much power after the tournament if at all.

3. Yajirobe was actually the one to be called resilient, not Goku.

Anyways, it's still one of the more accurate lists I've seen. It would be nice if you did some of Pre-Baba arcs as well.
 

ahill1

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@Fantastische Hure

I agree with you, I think it's somewhat of a tough situation. I wouldn't like to argue that they were overestimating Chappa-o because the post match was all about how amazing Goku was, not that King Chappa seemed somewhat overrated or anything like this.

I'd like to say that maybe it was a case of Yamcha and everyone else kind of underestimating their abilities compared to Chappa-o and not realizing how strong they really are compared to some "untouchable God", but then a scenario like this seemed to be reserved to the match between Goku vs Panpoot, a match to which Kame-Sen'nin quickly pointed out this fact.

Out of Universe, which might be ironically the best explanation, is that Akira Toriyama still was kind of on the fence on how he'd have the heroes compared to that power of Goku, as well as compared to Chappa-o... maybe he thought of having them, at least Yamcha and Kuririn, not too much above Chappa-o, but then saw it was necessary later on so the Tournament would get more smooth, as well as having a more satisfactory fight between Goku vs Kuririn, as well as not giving Yamcha a similar hole to the last Tournament again, in which he knew he hadn't a chance as soon as the prelims ended.

Also, the "I didn't think someone could defeat Chappa-o that easily" is in Herms or just VIZ? At least according to the Portuguese version of my physical manga, Yamcha stated something like "he didn't even give a shot to Chappa-o" which would work better with subsequent actions and statements, and might as well be what Kame-Sen'nin was thinking as well... heck, it'd be the obvious thing, "Goku was too much for Chappa-o". So, is that "I didn't think he could be defeated Chappa so easily" in the original as well?


@Future Warrior -- thanks man, I will get into that soon.
 

ahill1

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SSJ2, I can't thank on this section, can you grant me the power?
 

Fantastische Hure

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A great person once said that it's possible Goku used Match-Level against Yajirobe. Which I'd say is definitely possible. I agree with that personally.
 

Fantastische Hure

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Piccolo-Daimao's initial young self kind-of got dominated at the very beginning, but he didn't seem that bad once he saw how high Goku became.

Also read all of it.
 

Animelover5487

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Fantastische Hure said:
A great person once said that it's possible Goku used Match-Level against Yajirobe. Which I'd say is definitely possible. I agree with that personally.

Seeing as Goku was pissed when he attacked Yaji, thinking he was Tambourine's partner, and later said he was the most resilient person he has ever fought. I find it highly unlikely that Goku was at his match level.
 

GreatSaiyaman123

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Fuck, i can't thank on this section.

SSJ2, gimme the powa!

I'm sharing my thoughts later, Ahill. I've already read the 22nd part but i don't think i'll post until i read everything.
 
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