Prime Mike Tyson vs Khabib in a street fight

[ahill1]

Who'd win? I'd say Tyson.

 

[Spiral-Force]

I'd say Khabib gets it done. He knows how dangerous Tyson would be in a stand up fight, so he'd look to execute his wrestling quite early on. And once it hits the ground, Khabib would impose his will in a very dominant fashion. Tyson could irritate him by fighting dirty (e.g. biting), but they'd still be in different worlds on the ground due to the skill gap.

 

[ahill1]

I'd say Khabib gets it done. He knows how dangerous Tyson would be in a stand up fight, so he'd look to execute his wrestling quite early on. And once it hits the ground, Khabib would impose his will in a very dominant fashion. Tyson could irritate him by fighting dirty (e.g. biting), but they'd still be in different worlds on the ground due to the skill gap.

But couldn't Tyson just punch his head while Khabib is trying to take him to the ground? Punches while avoiding a take down may be fatal to Khabib.

 

[Spiral-Force]

But couldn't Tyson just punch his head while Khabib is trying to take him to the ground? Punches while avoiding a take down may be fatal to Khabib.

Takedowns can be pretty quick, actually - even amongst two wrestling specialists. There isn't always an in-between moment of grappling. And grapplers, especially the top of the top, constantly think of ways to improve the position when there's resistance. If anything, a bigger concern would be the impact of Tyson's head colliding with the solid ground. That, in addition to an elite wrestler having their way with you? Sheesh.

 

[Papasmurf]

What's Khabib's win-loss ratio and what are his weight, height and reach?

 

[Spiral-Force]

He retired 29-0. These days, he weighs over 200lbs and can train without having to worry about severe weight cutting like in his fighting days. Most sources list him as 5ft10 with 70 in reach.

 

[Papasmurf]

Which fighting styles does he use?

 

[Spiral-Force]

He's a sambo specialist, with competent striking. You can get an introduction into what he's about by his career highlights. Stylistically, he was a nightmare matchup for everyone in his division at the time, similar to his training partner Makhachev, the current lightweight champ.

 

[ahill1]

Takedowns can be pretty quick, actually - even amongst two wrestling specialists. There isn't always an in-between moment of grappling. And grapplers, especially the top of the top, constantly think of ways to improve the position when there's resistance. If anything, a bigger concern would be the impact of Tyson's head colliding with the solid ground. That, in addition to an elite wrestler having their way with you? Sheesh.

Yeah, but if Tyson had Intel on him, he'd be expecting a take down early on, so he'd look to hit him with a big punch, and a big punch from Tyson could be fatal for Khabib. Even when Khabib is clinching, he's still open to punches, which while not that effective as in a mid term distance, is still destructive to get in when we're talking about Tyson. Similarly, a very tall and resilient guy like Spinks had his stomach hurt badly when Tyson was clinching and punched him in the guts, and he had a very brutal record besides being very big. Itd be very difficult to take Tyson to the ground without this latter at least attempting his way out of it with punches to the head or to the body, specially if Tyson is expecting a take down.

How'd you say Khabib would fare against a big opponent like Tyson (actually a little smaller) but with a very good ground game, like Jon Jones?

 

[Warmmedown]

fucking hell, not Khabib vs Jones AGAIN
edit: I'd bet on Khabib over Tyson too btw. Tyson's punches won't do anything on the ground and Khabib is great at controlling the wrists anyway. On the way down I'm sure Khabib knows where to put his head to avoid anything major and I'd imagine Tyson goes down in about a second anyway, since it's not like MMA existed at the time and he didn't wrestle in school, so he'd be fully ignorant in the 80s. A lot of extra variables on the street though...clothes, altitude, ground, objects, weight. Khabib vs Tyson, in Dagestan's altitude, with loose jackets on, with an exposed 220V electrical cable on the floor: Khabib by incineration.

 

[ahill1]

Shut up, Wolf

 

[Warmmedown]

Ok but how would Jon Jones do vs Khabib in Call of Duty? Jones has long arms, so I think his arm will get tired faster from moving the mouse.

 

[ahill1]

I think the Mr. Brown officer would legally have his way around the fact Johnny stole shit ilegally

 

[Warmmedown]

Wat

 

[Spiral-Force]

Yeah, but if Tyson had Intel on him, he'd be expecting a take down early on, so he'd look to hit him with a big punch, and a big punch from Tyson could be fatal for Khabib. Even when Khabib is clinching, he's still open to punches, which while not that effective as in a mid term distance, is still destructive to get in when we're talking about Tyson. Similarly, a very tall and resilient guy like Spinks had his stomach hurt badly when Tyson was clinching and punched him in the guts, and he had a very brutal record besides being very big. Itd be very difficult to take Tyson to the ground without this latter at least attempting his way out of it with punches to the head or to the body, specially if Tyson is expecting a take down.

Tyson having intel introduces a variable that wasn't previously set. We can entertain it, but it brings your prior confidence into question. Pre-existing knowledge is better than none, but it's not inherently a game-changer. This is especially the case with Khabib, both in the cage and from what's discussed in the commentary booth when analysts talk about how his opponents know what he wants to do but can't stop him. He's very effective at neutralising his opponent and taking minimal damage, like when he controls the arms and locks both legs together, and just chain wrestling in general. Getting caught by a big punch is not impossible, but it's a gameplan that tends to be hit-and-miss outside of a few freaks like Wilder. That's why you tend to hear a fighter being described as having 'a puncher's chance' when they're the clear underdog. I understand that the nuance here is Tyson's power/size, but I'd argue that Khabib has a good enough combination of stats and skillset to win.

How'd you say Khabib would fare against a big opponent like Tyson (actually a little smaller) but with a very good ground game, like Jon Jones?

Being up against another MMA fighter, especially one of that calibre, is a vastly different challenge. In a strange way, it shows how special Khabib is when people contemplate questions like him vs Jon Jones or him vs Brock Lesnar. My response to that is, let's not get carried away...

 

[ahill1]

Tyson having intel introduces a variable that wasn't previously set. We can entertain it, but it brings your prior confidence into question. Pre-existing knowledge is better than none, but it's not inherently a game-changer. This is especially the case with Khabib, both in the cage and from what's discussed in the commentary booth when analysts talk about how his opponents know what he wants to do but can't stop him. He's very effective at neutralising his opponent and taking minimal damage, like when he controls the arms and locks both legs together, and just chain wrestling in general. Getting caught by a big punch is not impossible, but it's a gameplan that tends to be hit-and-miss outside of a few freaks like Wilder. That's why you tend to hear a fighter being described as having 'a puncher's chance' when they're the clear underdog. I understand that the nuance here is Tyson's power/size, but I'd argue that Khabib has a good enough combination of stats and skillset to win.

Being up against another MMA fighter, especially one of that calibre, is a vastly different challenge. In a strange way, it shows how special Khabib is when people contemplate questions like him vs Jon Jones or him vs Brock Lesnar. My response to that is, let's not get carried away...

You had already introduced this variable when you said that Khabib, knowing how dangerous Tyson would be fighting standing up, would look to take him to the ground. So Khabib would need to have foreknowledge on Tyson's punching power.

And Khabib always has ways around their opponents, but he has never fought someone with a strong punch like Tyson's. As specialist comentaristas like Joe Rogan says, getting punched in a heavyweight division is very different from getting punched at categories below, and that's why Jon Jones is making an intense preparation to up the category. I'm not sure if Khabib would take well a punch from Tyson which could and would imo very well likely happen when he tries to take Tyson down. Many times, Khabib receives retaliation punches in an attempt, from his opponents, to avoid take downs when he fought... he just shurgged off most of them because from that position, they weren't a threat. Tyson's though? Could be a total different story.

 

[Warmmedown]

The difference is Khabib has the knowledge of Tyson. Why would Tyson in his prime (1980s) know about Khabib?

ALso why cant khab take a punch from tyson? Khabib is like 190-200lbs between camps, not 155lbs. Tyson was between 220 and about 250. Also why do you talk about sTReET fIGht but then ignore that Khabib is a highly experienced judoka and can use clothing (Tyson is from NYC, Khabib is from Dagestan. Both cold places for at least half of the year) to aid his takedowns?

What punch is Tyson going to throw when he's grabbed by Khabib? Are you expecting him to throw a punch to KO Khabib from there? How exactly? When have you ever seen someone even throw an effective punch against someone after being grabbed in close? Maybe against the cage, but there is not a cage here (although youve ignored the surroundings anyway, despite it being a sTrEet fIGhT). Even when I think of fights like Sakuraba vs Vovchanchyn or Sakuraba vs Belfort, Sakuraba was able to take these guys down without being KOed and Sakuraba only really had a single-leg, not some of the safer (from punches) takedowns of Khabib where he's in closer. If Khabib grabs the right sleeve and the belt with the other hand and is in close, how is Tyson going to punch him? With his left arm? How hard can you punch your own chest? You really think it makes any sense to say that would knock out Khabib? Is it possible? Maybe. But it's a tiny chance, so it makes no sense to say Tyson is the favourite just from that. Same for if Khabib gets in on his hips. Khabib's head is by the hip, how well can Tyson hit it in that situation. If Khabib clinches and then swivels around to the back and ura nages or valley drops him, how is Tyson gonna punch? And if the punch doesn't KO him, Tyson is then on the floor (considering he knows nothing about wrestling and is using his arm to punch instead of things like breaking grips, getting an underhook or pushing the head down) and it's over because he's not getting up. He's in a choke or with a broken arm within 60 seconds. Assuming he's not KOed by the fall itself. Similarly low chances with a cage or wall, but Tyson might be able to use it buy himself an extra few seconds to hit Khabib. But what gets me is you're ignoring all these variables. Like did you know that in the UFC cage, right by the wall there's a small area where the floor dips lower by a few millimetres? And that some fighters know about this and put their heel in that indentation, to help their takedown defense, as it makes it more difficult for the attacking wrestler to pull them away from the cage and finish the takedown? If a detail that small matters, why would weather, clothing or whether the fight is on a beach, in a field, in a bar, in a public toilet, in an empty car park, in an office etc not all matter? It's not DBZ.

 

[Spiral-Force]

You had already introduced this variable when you said that Khabib, knowing how dangerous Tyson would be fighting standing up, would look to take him to the ground. So Khabib would need to have foreknowledge on Tyson's punching power.

And Khabib always has ways around their opponents, but he has never fought someone with a strong punch like Tyson's. As specialist comentaristas like Joe Rogan says, getting punched in a heavyweight division is very different from getting punched at categories below, and that's why Jon Jones is making an intense preparation to up the category. I'm not sure if Khabib would take well a punch from Tyson which could and would imo very well likely happen when he tries to take Tyson down. Many times, Khabib receives retaliation punches in an attempt, from his opponents, to avoid take downs when he fought... he just shurgged off most of them because from that position, they weren't a threat. Tyson's though? Could be a total different story.

Khabib already has the knowledge. The Tyson chosen for the fight doesn't, making this a new variable.

While Tyson is quite different from anyone else Khabib has fought, this applies to both of them. It appears that the divide right now isn't about what either of them brings to the table, but who's more threatening to the other as a whole. Given what we both have laid out, it just doesn't seem convincing to me that Tyson would be the favourite when you look at their overall abilities. Tyson has far more things to worry about than Khabib does.

Although Tyson has the weight advantage, Khabib is fairly heavy himself in this period of his life. Another part to pay attention to is energy expenditure. A frequent pattern in Khabib's style is his ability to distribute his weight; making his opponent carry his weight in addition to giving them ground and pound or threatening all sorts of submissions.

On a side note, it's common for street fights to go to the ground when no one else intervenes. People get heated, someone loses balance, then boom - they're on the floor; happens a lot. Khabib has more tools he can use to navigate through the chaos.

 

[ahill1]

The difference is Khabib has the knowledge of Tyson. Why would Tyson in his prime (1980s) know about Khabib?

ALso why cant khab take a punch from tyson? Khabib is like 190-200lbs between camps, not 155lbs. Tyson was between 220 and about 250. Also why do you talk about sTReET fIGht but then ignore that Khabib is a highly experienced judoka and can use clothing (Tyson is from NYC, Khabib is from Dagestan. Both cold places for at least half of the year) to aid his takedowns?

What punch is Tyson going to throw when he's grabbed by Khabib? Are you expecting him to throw a punch to KO Khabib from there? How exactly? When have you ever seen someone even throw an effective punch against someone after being grabbed in close? Maybe against the cage, but there is not a cage here (although youve ignored the surroundings anyway, despite it being a sTrEet fIGhT). Even when I think of fights like Sakuraba vs Vovchanchyn or Sakuraba vs Belfort, Sakuraba was able to take these guys down without being KOed and Sakuraba only really had a single-leg, not some of the safer (from punches) takedowns of Khabib where he's in closer. If Khabib grabs the right sleeve and the belt with the other hand and is in close, how is Tyson going to punch him? With his left arm? How hard can you punch your own chest? You really think it makes any sense to say that would knock out Khabib? Is it possible? Maybe. But it's a tiny chance, so it makes no sense to say Tyson is the favourite just from that. Same for if Khabib gets in on his hips. Khabib's head is by the hip, how well can Tyson hit it in that situation. If Khabib clinches and then swivels around to the back and ura nages or valley drops him, how is Tyson gonna punch? And if the punch doesn't KO him, Tyson is then on the floor (considering he knows nothing about wrestling and is using his arm to punch instead of things like breaking grips, getting an underhook or pushing the head down) and it's over because he's not getting up. He's in a choke or with a broken arm within 60 seconds. Assuming he's not KOed by the fall itself. Similarly low chances with a cage or wall, but Tyson might be able to use it buy himself an extra few seconds to hit Khabib. But what gets me is you're ignoring all these variables. Like did you know that in the UFC cage, right by the wall there's a small area where the floor dips lower by a few millimetres? And that some fighters know about this and put their heel in that indentation, to help their takedown defense, as it makes it more difficult for the attacking wrestler to pull them away from the cage and finish the takedown? If a detail that small matters, why would weather, clothing or whether the fight is on a beach, in a field, in a bar, in a public toilet, in an empty car park, in an office etc not all matter? It's not DBZ.

I'm not ignoring all those variables. All I'm saying is that I'd bet on Tyson, but not with certainties, so much so I created the thread. And FYI, I've already delved in depth in these scenarios watching their fights and seeing other discussions.

Khabib takes punches from his division. Taking a punch from a guy whose class is entirely different is another story. We have weight divisions in UFC. Many heavyweight Champs said Jones would have a really hard time on heavyweight since he isn't used to those punches, which is why some fighters haven't had the same success when moving up. And it isn't solely Tyson's weight. His punches are lethal compared to guys as have as him. He has speed, techniques and a biology factor that just makes his punches very lethal.

 

[ahill1]

Khabib already has the knowledge. The Tyson chosen for the fight doesn't, making this a new variable.

While Tyson is quite different from anyone else Khabib has fought, this applies to both of them. It appears that the divide right now isn't about what either of them brings to the table, but who's more threatening to the other as a whole. Given what we both have laid out, it just doesn't seem convincing to me that Tyson would be the favourite when you look at their overall abilities. Tyson has far more things to worry about than Khabib does.

Although Tyson has the weight advantage, Khabib is fairly heavy himself in this period of his life. Another part to pay attention to is energy expenditure. A frequent pattern in Khabib's style is his ability to distribute his weight; making his opponent carry his weight in addition to giving them ground and pound or threatening all sorts of submissions.

On a side note, it's common for street fights to go to the ground when no one else intervenes. People get heated, someone loses balance, then boom - they're on the floor; happens a lot. Khabib has more tools he can use to navigate through the chaos.

I didn't specify them having knowledge or not, but to make this even, I'd say both would have knowledge. Even more so since when Tyson was in his prime, Khabib was very young, so the fight wouldn't take place by then. The fight would be in a hypothetical scenario when both are in their prime and since it's a hypothetical, it could be in a case where at the same time they both knew of each other expertises. If Khabib hadn't knowledge of Tyson either, it could be fatal to him as he maybe wouldn't approach Tyson with the same cautious of already looking for a take down.

Khabib may be heavy, but the resilience to take in heavy punches goes a little beyond that. Heavier guys than Khabib who were fully prepared to take strong punches from Tyson, couldn't handle well after receiving 2 well connected blows.

It just seems unlikely to me that Khabib could approach Tyson and take him down without getting punched once. And one thing to take into note is that when Khabib takes his opponents down, applying all the techniques firstly to execute it, some don't try to execute heavy punches because they think it wouldn't be a threat to Khabib. I'd say Tyson, knowing the explosives on his hands, would very well explore it to avoid the take down. And since many times the head is a little exposed to execute a take down, it could be very dangerous to Khabib. Once Khabib fought a Brazillian guy that was later caught on steroids, he had a harder time taking him down and actually remembering well he couldn't take him down that effectively at all. So the time Khabib would take to drop Tyson could be delayed enough to Tyson execute his mortal punches... even more accounting to the fact they are bare hands punches.

Once on the ground, Khabib probably would his way, but that's an IF. And even still, Tyson could catch him by surprise with a punch in that position. I remember that in the Anderson Silva vs Chael Sonnen fight, the latter was pressuring Silva constantly on the ground, but Anderson caught him with a big punch while on the disfavored ground position which visibly had an effect on him.