Proof base > Freeza

[GreatSaiyaman123]

False. He actually stated he didn't have the time to come up with elaborate ways, so he went for the simpler route.

He never mentioned being short on time when he made SSJ up.

And even if that's the case, think with me for a second. Toriyama always had to make up new ways of having Goku and co. power up because their last method got outdated (e.g. Roshi telling Goku he can't train him anymore after the RRA Arc). So if Toriyama's solution was giving Goku a transformation, be it a rushed solution or not, doesn't that mean Goku improving his base form is a outdated method?

I guess you also believe Kid Boo is stronger than Beerus now, since EoZ Goku was looking forward to fighting him again and regarded him as the mightiest foe he had ever faced. I don't argue retcons.

It's shown in the end of the chapter that Goku was interested in how strong Oob could become if he trained, not just in fighting someone as strong as Pure Boo again. That's why he leaves to train with Oob in the end of the series.
Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5
Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power. This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? I've got it! From now on I'll live with you at your house and teach you!”

If you don't argue retcons then you might as well argue that Goku is an earthling.

Vegeta's Super Saiyan were also his limits until they weren't.

Ok, so let's assume i agree that Vegeta just magically broke through a wall for a second. What would make you think the same applies to their Base forms? When put under critical examination, your argument would be nothing but a generalization, as other cases dictate they must transform in order to power up (such as the Saiyans unlocking upper forms in the Boo Arc and beyond).

Chapter: 426 (DBZ 232), P7.2-3
Context: after Goku says he’ll enter the tournament
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this. You’d better brace yourself. I’ve improved quite a lot.”
Goku: “Me too, Vegeta.”

Wrong.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P8.1-4
Context: as Goku and Vegeta are about to fight
Goku: “I don’t wanna take any damage from you and have it become Majin Boo’s energy…So I’m gonna end this quickly, at maximum power.”
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”

Wrong.

One, he said main characters, plural. Second, if we are going to use Super to argue, Super Saiyan 2 Majin Vegeta was stated to have had his hidden power drawn out to his limits by Babidi, too. Yet despite the fact that SSj2 level is as far as his limits get, he thoroughly surpassed his limits in the battle against Beerus just by being enraged. Ergo, this is wrong at best.

Isn't Goku a main characer as well?

I do admit you have a point with Enraged Vegeta, though. He broke through several ceilings into power and becamse fusion tier with a mere rage boost. I don't think there's any way of working that out logically.

Chapter: 306 (DBZ 112), P9.5
Narrator: “Piccolo and the other two seemed paralyzed from their fear of Freeza, whose battle power was in a completely different dimension, and they couldn’t even move…”

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3
Piccolo: “If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye…!”
Goku: “It’s alright, I don’t think he’ll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy…”

"Seemed" is being used rhetorically here, as it consistently is when statements similar to this are made. So no, Trunks is not uncertain.

Actually, "Seemed" can be used either to indicate something you've seen or something that apparents to be the case. If you pick up a Thesaurus you will see words like "Apparently", "Imply", "Sound" or "Suggest" as synonyms to seem(ed).

No, this is never stated. That's just you putting a spin on the quote. I can take things out of context, too:

Chapter: 444 (DBZ 250), P3.2
Context: before Gohan becomes a Super Saiyan 2
Gohan: “Well then, I’ll become one, just like you want, though I don’t know why…To top it off, should I go so far as to become a Super Saiyan that has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall?”

FPSSj by itself is stated by the same Gohan not to surpass the Super Saiyan wall. Afterall, he refers to Super Saiyan 2 as the version that has surpassed it. See how it's convenient when we select quotes?

Actually...

さらに: Adverb, Conjunction
1. furthermore; again; after all; more and more; moreover; even more​

Goku does imply there are 3 forms above the original Grade I form as well:
Chapter: 473 (DBZ 279), P13.6
Context: Goku decides to use Super Saiyan 3 against Boo
Goku: “Alright then. How about I show you a Super Saiyan [SSJ3] that has even further [Than SSJ2] surpassed a Super Saiyan [FPSSJ] who has surpassed a Super Saiyan…”

You are the one who made up a Super Saiyan Grade 1.5 that is pure headcanon as far as any sort of Dragon Ball media goes, but see, that's what Vegeta tells Goku. As far as Goku himself goes, he worked to completely master Super Saiyan itself, and this is what he ended up accomplishing according to the statements.

You're in denial, Tapion. I've posted Goku's statement that surpassing SSJ is a must, but you keep ignoring it and claiming Vegeta is still using a inferior form to match Cell because he magically broke through a wall without posting a single piece of evidence. Your main argument here is that the guidebooks don't mention anything, but guess what: The SEG never mentions anything about Grade forms, and Daizenshuu 7 also misses FPSSJ's existence. Guess saying the Grade forms exist is headcanon as well?

The statements also says Goku can raise his power without strain, and the anime clarifies Vegeta is refering to powering up instead of going to 100%, and the manga itself also clarifies this with statements before and after this saying they must and have transcended SSJ to fight Cell. But you always forget that for some reason...

...That's not actually stated. By 4 Super Saiyans, they are obviously talking about Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Goku. They literally proceed to list 5, not 4, Grades of Super Saiyan, at a time where Gohan's SSj2 state was believed to be nothing but a variation of the other Super Saiyan Grades, so they're obviously not talking about the grades. How did you even arrive to this interpretation?

The guidebook lists all of the increases provided by Grade 4, and it literally mentions nothing about powe boostr:

Super Saiyan Grade Four
A form where without consciously raising their ki they are still able to remain Super Saiyan on a regular basis: that's Grade Four. From the start Grade One balanced power, energy consumption, etc. This form removes the slightly agitated state which characterizes Grade One. It's a natural form of Super Saiyan which has even gotten rid of their wild personality!

I know it's refering to the 4 Super Saiyans instead of the forms. My point there was that it mentions how the Super Saiyans get stronger, but later on it proceeds to say Goku and Gohan's power up was via transforming into a superior form instead of saying he just got stronger in Grade I. Sorry for being vague there.

Btw, Dragon Box vol. 6 confirms it's a superior form to Grade I:

So no, this is false.

Sure he has. He has become stronger.

But his base didn't, so...

Except the actual guidebooks state the strain removal refers to the strain of normal Super Saiyan, so this is wrong.

Actually, the guidebook (If you're referring to the Super Anime Comic Guide) mentions Grade I having good stamina, and Grade IV getting rid of the wildness of the form.
A form where without consciously raising their ki they are still able to remain Super Saiyan on a regular basis: that's Grade Four. From the start Grade One balanced power, energy consumption, etc. This form removes the slightly agitated state which characterizes Grade One. It's a natural form of Super Saiyan which has even gotten rid of their wild personality!"

The Super Saiyan does indeed places stress over the body, but it's not shown to be fatal other than when Goku was having a heart desease:

I think it's a good comparison to say SSJ is like a adrenalin boost. It makes you stronger and your circulatory and respiratory systems work a lot faster, but it's not harmful unless you're using it in long terms or while having heart issues.

Other than Goku vs #19, we never see Goku or Vegeta returing to base after a exhausting fight until the fight is over (Vs Freeza or vs #18), nor do we see Vegeta reverting back to base in order to save stamina when he's not fighting.

Chapter: 420 (DBZ 226), P6.2
Context: after Trunks blows Cell out of the city
Cell: “…Looks like you really have improved…”

Cell just got finished disregarding Trunks, only to comment on his improvement after being hit with the kiai. If there was no notable change in power, why would he state such a thing? At the very least, can you agree Base Trunks is comfortably beyond where his Base level was during his first appearance?

Context is key, EV.

Spoiler

Cell's statement is a extension of his reaction to Trunks becoming powerful enough to kill the twins. You can argue Cell is refering to Base Trunks nailing the final nail in the coffin by showing power superior to the twins just in base when he Kiais Cell, but that's unlikely. Not only moving away a suppressed Cell would require no effort, but Trunks going SSJ in order to kill the twins confirm he's not stronger tham then in base.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Something i just found:

Chapter: 428 (DBZ 234), P7.5
South Kaio: “In my South Area, there’s an amazingly strong guy called Papoi! Compared to him, a guy like [Goku] is noo—oothing special!”

South Kaio clearly isn't bullshitting because he changes he mind when he sees SSJ Goku. How likely is form someone to surpass Freeza, who was the strongest in the universe? Only people stronger than Freeza are either gods or mutants (Z Fighters, Dabra).

 

[Tapion]

Sorry, but at best this is repetitive. I have no desire to debate this.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Cell's impression on his improvement was derived from being hit with the kiai. There's no reason for him to note Trunks' improvement had that not been a factor. Both were suppressed and Cell still realized that Trunks had gotten stronger based on that. No way around that. The main takeaway here is that Trunks is well ahead of where he was before leaving for the past in all forms. If it was just a matter of Cell being knocked out of the city because he was suppressed, there's nothing to comment on because his (Trunks) improvement wouldn't have been a factor.

 

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Cell's impression on his improvement was derived from being hit with the kiai. There's no reason for him to note Trunks' improvement had that not been a factor. Both were suppressed and Cell still realized that Trunks had gotten stronger based on that. No way around that. The main takeaway here is that Trunks is well ahead of where he was before leaving for the past in all forms. If it was just a matter of Cell being knocked out of the city because he was suppressed, there's nothing to comment on because his (Trunks) improvement wouldn't have been a factor.

Cell's surprise is because Trunks managed to defeat the Androids, as evidenced by them going missing.

Cell was about to sneak on Trunks and was later shown to power up, indicating Trunks hardly needed a good bit of his power to Kiai him away since he Cell suppressed to very low levels. That makes very unlikely for Cell to have sensed him there.

 

[Evil Vegeta]

Cell came to the conclusion that Trunks had gotten stronger after he's hit by the kiai. It makes little to no sense for him to even make that statement if the kiai played no part in it. Yes, Trunks said the Androids weren't around, but Cell quickly questioned if he even defeated them.

Prior to that, Cell had completely ignored what Trunks said about being strong enough to take him down and how he experienced Perfect Cell's power. The whole scene makes it look as if Cell doesn't believe Trunks can do anything based on his data. The kiai was what Cell needed to gauge Trunks' overall improvement compared to the outdated calculations he had on his power.

So Cell being suppressed wouldn't necessarily mean the force behind the kiai wasn't enough for him to realize that Trunks was a lot stronger than he thought.